Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations spillway.. fish exit?

Hi my question is do I have to worry about stocked fish swimming downstream and over the spillway that is the ponds outlet. In the spring the water really flows through there then in the dryer part of the year considerably less. My species of main concern are walleye LMB, BG, perch, and Crappie I am also considering placing a lone musky in pond.

Pond profile is a 45 year old man made {inlet-outlet} previously subject to winterkill and otters. both are being dealt with. Although the water is not muddy it is a blackish brownish,,almost like a dark iced tea color... how would this affect the fish?
5 acres
15+ foot holes
5-9 foot in middle
sand and muck bottom
boulder levee wall

I guess I have quite a few questions and would appreciate advice especially if anyone is familiar with what I have mentioned or if you are familiar with northern ponds

I have a new pond with a spillway, and I've been contemplating that same issue. I was considering hardware cloth or something similiar, but I think it would require considerable maintenance to keep it clean. I'm hoping someone with experience in this will post.

In the same pond pretty much all I or anyone can catch is chubs anb bullheads the chubs or horned chubs is what I call them i

A few species of fish, notably Grass Carp, are drawn to moving water. These types are prone to exit ponds when water is running over the spillway.

With almost all of the species we manage for - BG, LMB, CC - adults tend to hunker down and stay put during large water movement events. So what you are likely to lose over the spillway would be numbers of small fingerlings. But except for newly stocked ponds, you have hundreds or thousands of times more small fingerlings than what are lost - so the loss is usually insignificant.

Any spillway screening attempting to halt the loss of fish MUST ensure that the spillway is not blocked during an overflow event. The result of that could mean water flowing over the entirety of the dam, with a possible dam breach resulting. Much, much worse than any loss of fish, regardless of size or numbers (lose the dam, lose them all, I figure).

Here is the partial drain pipe strainer I installed when my pond and I were young and (perhaps) foolish. Note that the back side is free of screening, letting water run full flow into the drain in an end-around long before the level rises to my emergency overflow (at least a foot higher) or, Heaven forbid, the top of the dam (about 3 feet higher). If I didn't have experience with this design NOT getting blocked (I have a very trash-free pond - no branches or sticks, very few plants) in large rain events, I would yank it out in the interest of dam safety.


WRT tea-stained water, it is probably full of tannins from trees (evergreen needles???). I don't know too much about this except, IIRC, the PH tends to be more acidic. There are a fair number of tea-stained pond owners on the forum, so stand by for eyewitness accounts. Don't panic until then - I don't recall any major problems from this condition.

P.S. Keep an eye on heybud's contemporary thread on tea-stained water over here.

Good post, Theo.
I can't speak for northern ponds, but we've had some experience with both spillway runoff and creek inflow during times of heavy rain. As Theo said, fingerlings tend to wash over the spillway, which is what happened to our rosies. After a stocking and a big rain, thousands were swimming in a creek downstream from the pond. Todd Overton had also brought us some great-looking 6-8" HSB and we worried that they washed away as well, but it seems that they stayed, judging by the amount we see feeding on pellets.

When the creek continues to run into the pond after a big rain, the gambusias actually swim into the running water and some end up in the creek. They look like tiny salmon swimming and jumping upstream.

From my experience, your larger fish should stay put, as Theo indicated. I'm sure some species of fish will hold tighter than others, but it seems that size is the main factor.

You will undoubtably lose some small fish. However, the loss should be relatively minor. Most fish tend to go upstream when water levels rise. Don't lose any sleep about it and don't take a chance on losing the dam by blocking the spillway.

A 12 inch LMB prefers forage that is approximately 1/4 its body size. However, all fish, especially those with a large mouth are opportunists, and will pack in a lot of minnows and can go larger than is sometimes good for them.

I don't know about Slipbobby, but you guys have convinced me that using a screen over the spillway is a BAD idea. I'll just take my chances with the fish and not risk damaging or losing the dam.

Most of the time, ice-tea colored water is acidic. Send a sample to a nearby lab and find out the chemistry of your water. Sounds like your flow rates are high. In the case of lots of water flowing through, don't try to change the water chemistry. However, if most months you have little to no flow, there are some practical things you can do. Water chemistry test, first.
Fish live in ice-tea colored water...or you wouldn't have fish there now. But, that tannin-stained water typically doesn't produce as many fish as a lake with minerals dissolved in its waters.
So, you likely have a fisheries dynamics issue, too. Therefore, I would recommend an electrofishing survey to find out what you truly have. For a 5 acre lake, you could easily spend $3-5,000 trying to correct the fishery and wind up wasting most of that money. An electrofishing survey will cost considerably less than that, and will give you a good reference point to begin to "fix" your lake.
Here's what you need to do. First, write down your goals. What do you want from your lake? Second, analyze the water and decide what needs to be done with it (if anything). Third, analyze the fishery by a professional fisheries biologist so you will know the current status of your fish population. Then, make a management plan and put it to work. For example, let's say you want all the fish stated in your first post. Your main goal is to have a well balanced, healthy pond with five or six species of fish. The electrofishing survey will tell you what you have. The management plan will tell you what to do to achieve your goals. If I were the biologist, I would see what you have...for the sake of argument, let's say the survey finds no walleye, some small, stunted largemouth bass that are 10-12" long and 8 years old, skinny adult bluegill and some native fish such as pumpkinseed sunfish, white suckers and different size classes of bullheads (as stated in your second post).
Your job is to learn as much as you can about each species of fish, their habitat requirements and their food chain needs...and then supply those needs.
While all this is going on, you need to learn as much as you can to properly care for the water...to avoid winterkill again. This likely means a thoughtful and practical aeration system.
Next, as your biologist, I would come up with a game plan for you, which will likely include a remedial stocking program. I might, or might not, recommend adult fish to correct the "problem" fishery of bullheads and suckers. (After you learn about those fish, you might change your mind about them being a problem.)
Once you know and understand the lifestyles of each fish you want, then you will choose whether or not to stock, what sizes to stock and when.
You will learn that largemouth bass will reproduce...a lot. You will learn that walleye will need to be stocked periodically to sustain the population. You will learn that the food chain for both walleye and largemouth bass are other fish, such as baby bluegill, small suckers, small bullheads, etc. So, your bullheads and suckers go from nuisance to food supply.
Any way, I'm out of time...that's where I would go, were I in your shoes.
All the best....

Oh yes...don't worry about the spillway. Small numbers of small fish may leave, but if big ones go, you have a more serious problem. Adult fish are happy to stay where there is good habitat and food.

Now that is Ponds101.

Wow! Great post!

My small 3/4 acre pond has a six inch pipe for it's main over flow and I've seen bluegill in the ditch that the water flows into. There has never been allot of them, but when it's rained really hard and the water is flowing full force, I can sometimes find a few laying around when the water dries up.

I just consider it part of natures way to thin down on the numbers of bluegill.

Eddie

Thin them one place and seed them into another.

I recently talked with a biologist while planning my pond about a "closed system". I informed him the plan was for a spillway lined with rip rap, no plumbing. He described a system where you would build the rip rap up to the height of the dam, creating a natural "screen" of rocks, where the water flows through. I can't speak for the goods or bads of this system, but it might be an idea.

Joe

Hey Joe,
I just converted to a rip rap lined spillway from a 6" pipe. I used a bunch of small rocks which I hope will allow the debris to flow past, break up the water speed and deter small fish from leaving.
I over flow almost every day for about 3 months out of the year. So we will see.