Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Tilapia or CNBG for forage

Within the next month I want to stock the pond with something to put the weight on the LMB. Which should I go with and what size, how many per acre?

New pond? Existing Pond? What's in it now?

Bluegill are the backbone of the food chain for largemouth bass. Since we can assume you have an existing bass population, make sure you have enough adult bluegill to reproduce sufficiently to build a food chain. It takes 150-250 adult bluegill per acre to establish a food chain, depending how many bass and their condition. If bass are seriously overcrowded, remove some of the intermediate size fish.
If you don't know the status of your fishery, have it analyzed.
Tilapia would be a good choice if you already have bluegill and bass are overcrowded. Tilapia reproduce so fast they can actually increase the odds of baby bluegill survival.

In addition I found an article that provides that BG , as common sense would tell you , eat a bunch of tilapia yoy/fry. So the tilapia will take pressure off the BG because they are an alternate source of food for LMB and they provide food for a lot of BG. Better fed BG are in better condition and produce more BG egg/fry. Further since 3-4in BG are the biggest predator in #s on small BG (yoy/fry) and they are eating yoy tilapia you may get higher survival rates for BG yoy. Thoughts or comments ?

Vulnerability of Redbelly Tilapia Fry to Bluegill

Predation with Changes in Cover Availability


WESLEY B. BICKERSTAFF • AND CHARLES D. ZIEBELL

Arizona Cooperative Fishery Research Unit 2

WILLIAM J. MATTER

The University of Arizona


ABSTRACT

The successful use of redbelly tilapia (Tilapia zilh') to control aquatic plants in ponds with game

fish depends on high survival of tilapia young. We tested the vulnerability of redbelly tilapia fry

under parental care to predation by bluegill. Experiments were conducted for a 3-day period in

5.5-m diameter pools at three levels of artificial plant cover (25, 50, and 75%) and at two densities

of predators (15 and 20 per pool). Predation rates on 14-day-old, unprotected fry also were deter-

mined. Fry survival was lowest with 25% cover (mean 40%) and highest with 75% cover (mean

72.5%). The survival of fry at 50% cover (mean 68.2%) was significantly higher than survival at

25% cover, bnt there was no significant difference in fry survival between 50 and 75% cover. Fry

survival was poor without parental care, ranging from 6 to 34%. Extrapolation of the survival data

indicated that too few Tilapia zilli, when stocked with predatory game fish, would survive to the

size where they could adequately control aquatic plants.

How about some comments on this thread ?

Ward,

I've stocked and studied Tilapia for over 5 years now in my ponds. Results which I have consistently seen are:

1) excellent algae control in ponds without artificial feeding with Tilapia stocking rates of 5 to 10 pounds per acre.

2) poor to fair algae control in ponds artificially fed and initital stocking rates of 5 to 10 pounds per acre

3) excellent algae control in ponds artificially fed and with Tilapia stocking rates of 10 to 15 pounds per acre

4) increased BG size and numbers, without exception, in every pond, every year

5) Consistently improved RW on LMB

6) Improved pond water appearance

This year I'M "growing my own" with an indoor recirculating system and will stock Tilapia that are much larger (generally about 3/4 pound) than previously stocked in my ponds. In addition to being larger and less subject to initial predation, the Tilapia will be very fresh when stocked without the stresses of transporting the fish several hours. I expect to see even larger numbers of Tilapia offspring as a result with all the benefits mentioned above.

Tilapia or CNBG for forage? My approach is to do both and I have found they are very complementary. We routinely catch 10 inch CNBG and have seen fish at about 13 inches.

Some say Tilapia shouldn't be stocked in LMB ponds because they will make your LMB too large for the ponds....that was the very resaon I got started with Tilapia several years ago (wanting to see those LMB that are too large for the pond), and haven't regretted for one minute the decision to stock them, study them, and enjoy their benefits.

ML have you seen in your ponds what the above study reported (BG eating a lot of tilapia fry) ?

BTW how is the hot tub RAS working ?

Once upon a time, this Hartley guy made some wild and wooly claims about the benefits of stocking Tilapia every year. Crazy stuff - they made your bass bigger, they made your BG bigger and more numerous, they wiped out FA - just crazy stuff. All now not only repeated in other independent tests in various ponds in various places, but becoming completely accepted into pondmeistering CW.

About the only question I have left about Tilapia is whether stocking them in a new pond concurrently with the initial BG forage is a good or bad idea. That's a study I'd like to see someone run with, preferrably contrasted with a no-Tilapia control pond. The only real feel I have for it now is that it's probably not cost-effective to stock Tilapia as forage until you have the predator presence which can utilize them. I'd think they'd still do great on FA if this was present. But what would the impact on a NEW BG population be???

Theo, I'll let you know as I plan to add tilapia to control the massive FA bloom in my new pond that was stocked with 1-2" CNBG and RES last September. They're going in just as soon as Todd will let me have them. I'm going to try and catch a few CNBG this weekend to check on their growth since stocking.

Theo take a look at this thread and add to it what is above. Then tell me what you are looking for. I may be able to find an answer or at least some more questions. This is not new to Fisheries Science as Swingle was doing research on tilapia in ponds in the 50's and the study above was in 1984.

http://www.pondboss.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=000459;p=1

I appreciate everyone's inpout and advice, to answer Theo's question the pond is over 50 years old and is located in Vernon, Florida which is northwest Florida. It is stocked with lmb, cnbg, and catfish. It is between 8-9 acres. My lmb are skinny. I just increased the feeders to four times a day to try to stimulate the bg, but back to the topic, if tilapia is the direction I want to go does anyone know of anyone in the northwest area of Florida where I can buy them.

I didn't recall the last half of that thread, with ML's/Todd's experiences stocking 6"/3" LMB with Tilapia. Sounds like Tilapia from year one can be quite beneficial, given what I consider "normal" sized LMB stockers or bigger.

mar23 is too early to bring tilapia up from the south...

Personally, a three day period as the basis for making conclusions and writing a paper seems a little short on duration, IMHO.

After five years, I still learn about Tilapia behavior every season. I can't say to the degree that BG eat the Tilapia fry vs LMB or other predators. I can say based on my experience, they all (BG and LMB) benefit from Tilapia in my ponds. BG predation would help explain the mathematical analysis I posted awhile back as one of the means which helps keep the Tilapia numbers from exploding in my ponds.

Theo, I may have some data on that after this growing season with new ponds in work.

As you may recall, the TGG experimental pond was not stocked with Tilapia consistent with the wishes of some who wanted the experiment to be more pure...not so this year, as the TGG pond will have Tilapia in abundance and it will be interesting, I think, to see what happens. My prediction is for significantly increased weights on the TGG's. With their mouth size, they should be a natural for Tilapia predation.

Thanks for your consistent encouragement on conducting experiments.

In a word...GREAT! I cranked up the temps in late February and have simply been amazed at the transformation in the fish. Metabolism has taken off and the weight gains are just amazing to see. The fish are simply beautiful, especially the red-bellied Pacu which have exploded from about 2 to 3 inches to I'm guessing about 7 or 8 inches. I can readily see now why people have trouble getting an aquarium large enough to keep up with their growths.

I may have raised the temps too soon for my system, however, because the fish biomass resulting is really getting large. In about three weeks, I'll turn a whole bunch of them loose into the ponds reducing the biomass in the system. Haven't seen any spawning although activity along those lines is clearly visible. If spawning happens in the system, I think it will be after I've released a bunch of fish into the ponds and made some room in the system for some new babies.

I have a CNBG only nursery pond. In 2005 I harvested 1925 CNBG. In the spring of 2006 I added Tilapia. In 2006 I harvested 2650 CNBG and 525 Tilapia. From this short test it looks like the Tilapia did not affect the CNBG reproduction. Will do the same in 2007.