Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Why We Hunt

Recently a member here posted some pics of an amazing deer he took on this forum. There has been some very civil and adult debate resulting about hunting (which may be a bit OT but definitely part of land management). Rather then take his post yet further from its intent I thought I would post this stand alone. This is my attempt to explain as hunters, why we hunt.

Why We Hunt, By Jack Spirko

I am going to attempt the best I know how to explain why we hunt in a way where some that do not might begin to understand hunters a little better. Like any real attempt to explain something to someone who has not done it this one will be via a story.

I started hunting at 13 both with the gun and with the bow. and by the time I was 15 I had taken two bucks with a gun and two doe with the bow. That year I committed to getting a rack buck with the bow if it took all season. At that time archery season in PA was 4 weeks long and I hunted every single day. It is a big commitment for a 15 year old to spend that much time in a 2x2 platform in a tree in rain, heat, cold etc but I did it and was still hunting the second to the last day of the season.

In my first two season I scored early in Archery Season so I had not experienced seeing the fall shift into winter and watched all the animals change patterns etc. In this long season I had seen many deer some very close I could not shoot many were does I choose to pass on. On this day my uncle did some rattling behind me and it worked. A 7 point buck tried to sneak in to see what was up and crossed me as he did. I took a very long shot for me (about 27 yards) the buck was almost angling directly away from me leaving me a very small target to angle the arrow from behind into his chest.

3 years of dedicated practice came to full fruition on this day. Those hours and hours of shooting hay bails off our roof had come to be worth every sacrificed video game and screw off hour they had cost. The shot was beyond perfect! It sneaked past the surrounding brush and sliced perfectly into the chest from behind. He ran about 150 yards and was down when I found him dead. I got to him quite ahead of my uncle and when I bent down to admire my kill there were tears in my eyes. I was happy, real happy but they were not tears of joy. I was a little sad for the deer as I am for any animal when I take its life but not enough to cry. I had already taken bigger bucks with the gun so it was not that the deer was so amazing or anything.

Something got to me and I did not know what. I did not want to be seen as some kid who got upset so I did the old wipe your eyes on your sleeve and got on with field dressing before my uncle got there. It was a long drag out to the road (about 3 miles) and by the time I got home all we did was hang up the deer, I took a shower, ate a bit of food and was out like a light. Over the next few days I began to understand why I had that moment but it would be years before I could put it into words so that others could understand. At 15 I just did not have the life experience to put it into context.

The reality was at that moment a lot of things had come to a head all at once. I knew for instance my uncle and all his friends would stop calling me "kid" I had now sort of graduated into being their equal having taken a rack buck with the bow was something even some of them had yet to do. I had proven myself by sticking to it for 4 strait weeks and when the moment came I did not choke or get the shakes I made what is to this day probably the most difficult shot I have ever taken with a bow at big game. After about a month in the bush I had come to know the animals more so then before and felt connected to it in a way that is hard to understand.

I had listened to the grouse drumming because they were drunk on fermented fox grapes and thought it was spring. I had watched squirrels run up and down the tree I was in never knowing I was there, I had more then one chickadee land on my arrow and look at my gray blob form with curious eyes but no real fear. I watched the leave go from green to orange and yellow then to brown and then fall to the ground. I had in some ways become part of the bush and when I took that deer it was now in a way a part of who I was and what I had become. In other words I was part of those woods at that point and in killing the deer a part of me died too. Additionally for the first time I came to an inner understanding of what and who I was.

I was not Jack Spirko some kid in Schuylkill County PA trying to figure out my life. I was for the first time truly at peace with the fact that I am indeed part of the wild world I had always loved, my place was as both a protector and as a predator and in the right place and time indeed I am even potential prey. In that moment at the side of that beautiful deer I became aware of all of this and more. I could not explain it but that is where the tears came from in short it was about realizing who I was and my place in the universe.

I also know that today that deer has lived more as a memory then he could have in the bush. In about 5 more years if no one would have shot him his teeth would have been gone and he would have starved in a very cold Pennsylvania winter. Yet today his antlers are on my walls and I have told his story a hundred times. I can't tell you the exact day I shot him as in Oct what ever. But I can tell you I was 15, it was the second to the last day of the season and that I shot a deer that changed me in a way that has continued to impact my life. That it still fuels my undying dedication to preserve the wilderness and our outdoor traditions even today more then 20 years later. The day will always be "the day of the deer", time and dates don't matter just the memory of something special that can never be taken away, cheapened or packaged for sale. It is mine and it can only ever be for me and for those I share it with, there are few things that live in a man's heart that way.

The day he takes a wife, has a child and the day of the deer all have a great deal in common.

That is the best I can do, I don't know if it really helps a non hunter to understand but that my friends at least for me is why we hunt,

Very nice post, Jack.

I'd like to ad a couple of thoughts.

1. A Spanish philosopher named Garcia Y Robertson (or Garcia Y Vega or something like that) stated "We do not hunt to kill, but rather kill to have hunted."

2. I never fall asleep as contented as when I have just put meat (or fish fillets) in the freezer. I believe it's 3 million years of genetically reinforced learning, genes that got passed on by making sure there was food for their next carriers to eat. Anti's may say that this makes me primitive; I think we all share the same genes and only some care to recognize and embrace them.

Very well said, Jack. Brought back memories of my younger years.

Very nice way to describe why we hunt and you capture much of that reason. One adder, I attribute my many days and hours fishing and hunting when I was a kid as something that kept me out of trouble and gave me a challenge that helped me grow up both physically and emotionally. It also taught me lots of skills. I spent all my spare time from age 12 to 24 doing something related to hunting or fishing. Many of those hours were with my dad. We made hunting blinds, decoys and other stuff we needed. We practiced shooting, calling and other hunting skills. The actual act of hunting was only a small portion of the experience. I think for every hour hunting I spent 100 hours working toward the hunt. I also felt like I became part of the wild world that I loved so much. I come from a family of hunters and I was accepted as one of the guys when I began to hunt. I helped to get several nephews into hunting. They are all grown up and none of the three hunt anymore but they have all told me that the time we spent practicing and hunting were their all time most memorable things as they grew up. I was of course their favorite uncle. I also like to just watch wildlife and shoot them with a camera. But somehow I don't think any of those three boys would have been as interested in nature watching as they were in hunting.

No one loves wildlife more than the hunter. Ted Nugents the "Great White Buffalo" always comes to mind. It was not the hunter that drove the buffalo to the brink of extinction. It was the bussiness man.

If you have an endangered species, open a season on it. Hunters put their money (and time) where their mouth is. Before long, that endangered species will be thriving at maximum carrying capacity with a generous bas limit.

Wildlife in America is not supported by the government or animal lovers either for that matter. Most game management agencies are almost 100% hunter revenue supported with the exception of water fowl. At least they were when I did a paper on the subject in school. Habitat development, supplemental food sources, almost every aspect of wildlife management you can think of comes from license revenue.

It is sooo ridiculous how wives refuse to understand or appreciate that our outdoor activities such as hunting and fishing revolve around putting meat on the table and in otherwise providing for the welfare of our families. They somehow convince themselves that we actually ENJOY getting up at 3:00 AM in the freezing cold to get into a deer blind, or slave away much of our lives at a job in order to afford a $30,000 bass boat, or invest in land so that we can have ponds - all in order to better care for our families. Forgive me for dumping on you guys but sometimes I feel so unappreciated that I just have to let it out.

Pond Law!

I'm with Dudley. My wife would never understand or appreciate me spending $30,000 for a bass boat just to provide for the welfare of the family. Women are just like that.

poseidon, you reading this? I do not think you are an anti hunter either. As you can see we are passionate about our pursuit of game. Since you love wildlife you are in our camp. You will help protect land from succumbing to developmentinto another shoping mall.

Jack great job! I too cried more than once agfter killing one and try to hide that fact. I was in a hurry to post the other day b/c heading out of town, to go hunting of course.

Just to add...As kids there is nothing better than taking kids fishing and hunting. It allows bonding and keeps kids out of trouble. I dream (literally) of the fun I will have taking my son. If for some reason he does not want to hunt I will not force but think I hope we can spend many hours togther in the woods and on the water.

Also on meat, Poseidon again agree with you on use of meat. Just b/c you see someone in a pic with a big buck does not mean they did not eat the meat. If folks do not use the meat I consider that poaching and right along with you on attitude of that disgusting behavoir. I have NEVER been in company with hunter that does not eat his game. In fact look into hunters for the hungry, many states process tons of deer to feed the needy at the cost of again hunter dollars.

Men are a predatory species. We can't help it, that's just what we are. If we don't hunt, our predatory instincts will be manifested in one way or another. If our instincts are not satisfied, we may exhibit strange behavior, like stabbing at meat on our plates or burning ants with a magnifying glass.

Deer, birds, and cute rodents are prey species. They surely know this, and breed prolifically to compensate. Most will be chased and killed within a year or 2 of birth. If we don't harvest them, another predator will, and probably not as humanely. If not predated, they will very soon overpopulate, and many will succumb to starvation, disease, and retrograde genetics.

Since I began hunting at 10, I instinctively gave thanks when I killed an animal. I still do.

Felis, canis, birds of prey, etc are not prey species. There is little to no justification for killing them. Sometimes you have no choice. This is an act of war, not predation. (that's another man-thing subject) So be it.

If someone kills an animal on my land, I sincerely hope it's edible, if you know what I mean.

I don't consider myself a hunter, but I destroy overpopulated prey on my farm. I don't eat the meat, because I don't need it. I let the night animals get their easy meal, and they are happy.

Yes, I'm here. Outnumbered and beaten, but still here.

Again, I know no one will change their opinion based on this thread. I look at the hunting thing from the deers perspective. They have a right to walk around in their home without being shot at. I can only imagine the pain of having an arrow through the chest, or a bullet hole through the neck, and trying to run away until you bleed to death. I am sure that after a few kills, you get numb to this. I just can't.

Yes, it would be great to have a couple of hundred pounds of free meat in the freezer. Yes, I want to bond with my kids as much as anyone else. I like to fish. I love shooting. I have killed several animals to stop their suffering. I eat meat that someone else has killed. I just could not look into a big healthy animals eyes and kill it in the name of sport.

If you eat what you kill, it is justified. If there really is an over population issue, then something has to be done, but I think this excuse is used too often. I know too many people who hunt for the kill, not the food. That just don't seem right.

I guess what I want to say is that I'm just too soft hearted to hunt. Call me wimpy, OK. I would just rather watch the deers eat the corn and salt that I put out. Don't hold it against me, and I won't hold hunting against you. Unless you are the one hunting for the kill.

Truce.

By the way, it looks like I'm the only one on PondBoss with this opinion. Is there not ONE other person on my side? Or are you just too smart to speak up?

Posiedon, whitetail deer are a very prolific species, typically a third of the population can be killed every year and it will rebound back to where it was the following year, twins are very common with whitetails and does can start breeding at 6 months of age. Without some thinning every fall whitetail deer numbers can get out of control in a very short time, much like your prey species of fish in a pond where there are just too few predators in the pond. Like the fish in our ponds, deer are a very renewable resource, personally I think they are much tastier than any of the fish in our ponds. In addition, last week I heard that there had been 276 reported vehicle deer collisions this year so far in Lancaster Co. where Lincoln is located.

I am reminded of the first squirrel hunting expedition I took my older son on at about age 10. It was behind my in-laws house in a small woods. I knocked one out of a tree, and my son had to finish him on the ground. We brought it back with chests stuck out; pondered whether to clean the 1 squirrel. Ended up burying him and had a funeral. Still get laughs about it to this day at family get togethers.

I'm right there with you, Poseidon. I've never been a hunter and most likely never will be.

I do eat meat and wear/use leather. I just don't want to do the killing.

When I was an early teenager, I got a BB gun. Man, I shot everything....birds, frogs, snakes, rabbits, etc.

Then one day, I just felt a huge amount of regret and couldn't do it anymore.

I used to keep Steelhead Trout that I caught in Erie, PA. Now I don't keep any, but I'll still eat the smoked trout.

I still dispose of bullheads caugt in my pond by throwing them up on shore. Same goes for the occasional Black Crappie. I don't feel much regret there.

I have accepted my hypocritical ways when it comes to hunting & eating meat (and disposal of bullheads). I'm OK with it, and I can sleep at night.

I also feel that there are some methods of hunting that are more challenging than others. Archery is more challenging than modern rifle. The bowie knife is more challenging than archery.

Shooting a bear who comes up to a chum pot is not very challenging in my opinion.

I've got nothing against moral hunters; I just can't do it.

BM, to make it worth while to clean them you need to take bigger squirrels, like this one my buddy Joe and I got last year:

Which one are you in the pic?

ROFLMAO!!!

Theo, now that I'm in Texas, I can do that. This was just a little ole 10# Miss. gray squirrel.

I'll jump in. I'm not a hunter, but I let a couple of friends hunt on my property. They're country boys and eat the meat, or give it to friends that need it. Not wanting to be confrontational, but I just don't understand how anyone can justify killing bears, lions elephants, etc "for sport". But, that what makes this country great - you don't have to justify it. Hey, I like to play golf -how wierd is that?

Theo,
NOW THAT's FUNNY!

Gotta admit; I'm not much of a Sportsman. I don't let anybody shoot anything on my place that they aren't going to eat. OK, I make an exception of crows and hogs.

poseidon, not getting on your case, I'm really not IN fact your not wimpy at all you got guts to admit your attitude and stand here and take it like a man, I admire you for that.

However want to challenge one thing you said. You see folks that do not hunt seem to consider how can you shot an animal in the chest and have it run off in pain. How do you know that is how they feel? Have shot numerous deer that simple jump then go back to eating or chasing a doe or whatever they never knew they were hit. I joke with my wife when I'm old and sick simply have a bow hunter shot me when I;m not looking, that is sick I know but have said it b.c the way I have seen deer react. If they did know do they were hit do they have the brain capacity or whatever to think they are about to die.

One other point, it is a very naive to think the deer you feed are going to live a wonderful life by you feeding them corn, they will die somehow right, coyote, car, disease, get sick with old age, etc. Why not a arrow or bullet. I understand you can not yourself going to shot them not trying to change your thoughts, just trying to get you thinking somemore on what REALLY happens to all the animals you feed and how the killing of like shorty said surplus animals is more than a "sport".

Greg, Did you ever step on your dog's tail? Did he yelp? How do you know it really hurt? I don't know how to answer "how do I know if a deer feels pain"? I don't think anyone would deny that a deer is a high enough form of life to feel pain, and it is my assumption that the deer feels the same amount of pain that you or I would if we were hit by a bullet or an arrow. The difference is that the deer doesn't understand that they have been shot. They don't associate the pain with the hunter. Their instinct is to run away from the hunter, and I imagine it hurts to run with an arrow in your thigh. Why don't I feel the same way about pulling the hook out of a fish? I guess I don't think the fish feels the pain like a mammal does. If they do, they don't convey it to me. Or maybe, like hunters, I'm just used to it. Your arguement "they're going to die from something anyway" holds true for all of us doesn't it? Glad you aren't a doctor.

As for standing up and taking it, well, maybe I should have known better than opening my mouth about hunting on a outdoor-guy-type forum, but this has turned into a great discussion. I admit that I have a better understanding of the several different viewpoints. I'll just keep shooting targets.

I hunt because I can't remember where in the devil I left it last! :p