Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Another hole in the ground

Just recieved water sample test back from local Coop Ext. Unfortunately only has ph and alkalinity; thought there would be more info or is this normal? The ph was 6.5 and the alkalinity was 6.8. Recommendations were to add 3 tons of ag lime/ac. Does this sound right? Should I get a more informed sample or wait till after liming. Ph looks good but alkalinity way low( should be 20 ppm correct?)

...a long, flat boat launch made of heavy timbers?
Please tell me I'm wrong!

I'm glad you have a good sense of humor Quigibo, your goals where to have it blend in with the pond, it does that real well now.

So, how are you going to fix it?

Fish need bridges to swim on also.

B-ski thats a tanning bed not a boat launch.

Blend with the pond it does but mabey just a little too well I figure there are severals ways too look at it:(The top 10)

1-good habitat for minnows to spawn.
2-has to be one on the most elaborate structures built for the least expensive(but most important) fish.
3-when i'm feeling down I can take a pic of me on it and call it a higher power moment.
4-good way to clean mud off of the atv.
5-easy way to get water samples without getting muddy
6-will keep my feet cool in the Texas summer.
7-Nice suprise for anyone using the pond for drag boat races.
8-It really freaks my dogs out when they try to walk beside me.
9-will not have far to fall if I slip
10-D'oh

For right now. Actually not sure what to do. Going to wait and see where it is when the water level settles(still draining at time of pic). With only a few inches over and with Texas heat hopefully will only be like this for a minimal time during the year. Cant tell which is worse seeing a dry pond with a dock 10 feet out of the water or seeing a pond with a dock/bridge underwater! I'll take the water whichever way I get it. I guess I'm a "the glass is half full"(or should I say overflowing).

You have either the most upbeat, optimistic disposition of anyone that posts here, or the most lenient, understanding, indulgent spouse-or a combination of the two.

I believe you are a lucky man.

Much like the original Quigibo!

Anyone have an answer to question about testing? Since only received ph(6.5) and alk.(6.8)should I get more detailed test now or wait till after liming(3 tons/ac)or once alk. in good range(20 ppm) it'll be good to go?

Water tests for ponds usually have more info but you have the critical ones there. If that came from the Co-op ext. then I would add the lime. In a couple mths (when the water is warm enough) it will have worked enough for your alka to be up to 20ppm.

Did you have the pond soil tested? The soil tests have more info than the water tests.

Look at this thread for actual test reports (soil and water).

http://www.pondboss.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=17;t=000092#000002

Waiting for the lime to arrive. Just thought I would share a better pic. This time no fish bridge just for people.

Notice some FA already growing. Can one stock talapia with initial stocking of FH/BG/CC? Another question (from the impatient side of me) Do I have to wait til pond limed and if so how long after liming to stock?

If you are using ag lime in normal amounts you can add fish then lime or lime then add fish. I would seperate the two by a few days though. That assumes your water is ok for fish now (not to acid for them to live).

I just saw this and have some questions about the alkilinity measurement. I see post oak, blackjack oak, and cedar trees plus Keller, Tx. USUALLY, the alkilinity level is 20 to 30ppm+ in this area. I am very surprised by a low alk reading in this area. However, you might have a soil strata that varies from the norm. Is the water hole here or? How long did you wait from impounding(rain) until the measurements were taken? You may or may not need the lime and it shouldn't hurt anything but I prefer Texas A & M for water quality samples.

DD-the pond is in Red River County(NE TX). The measurement was taken about 3-4 weeks after the rains put it at full pool, but has had some water in it for a couple of months. Will be liming as soon as they call.

Is it possible to over lime? Should I take another sample before liming.

Quigibo, I agree with DD on this…I can’t imagine anyone in Red River County having to lime a pond, unless very unusual circumstance.
The soils in this area are alkaline in nature - would sure hate to see anyone spend valuable pond money needlessly.

Delta, County
N.E. texas

Hey Quigibo, what part of Red River county are in? My land is on the Red River and Lamar County line a few miles from the Red River.

george- I thought DD was thinking my pond was in Keller. But since you say soil in Red River usually alkaline I will test again before liming(hate to waste money and probably have the time before they call to lime). The sample was taken a few weeks after full pool so maby just more time to adjust. The land is Hardwood bottoms not pines. Will test again and see if any difference.

Slymer- the pond is south of Clarksville.

Quigibo, the reference made about alkaline soils in Red River County pertain primarily to western portion of the county, whereas south of Clarksville may be transitional.
Hardwood bottoms suggest Post Oak Savannah rather than acidic Piney Woods soils.

Wouldn’t hurt to run another sample if you have the time.

Quigibo, I had no idea where it was. My train of thought had a lot to do with the different types of oaks and the cedars. Also, you have some FA which could indicate more fertility than the alk tests indicate. Of course, the FA could indicate clear, almost barren water.

Have you done any kind of visibility test?

If it were me, and it's not, I believe I would send a water sample to A & M. As Ewest suggests, I would also have a soil test done. You can find instructions on the A & M website. It won't hurt (well maybe a little bit of pain) to wait just a little longer to stock.

Quigibo,
Stock the tilapia with,or without the rest, if water temps are high enough they will be fine. It looks like clear water and a lot of blue sky and for me that would mean lots of algae and for them that would mean lots of food.

WRT the tilapia, I'd say it depends on what you're stocking it for. If you want tilapis for bass forage, there's not much use stocking them before the bass are present and big enough to take advantage of them. If you want to beat down the FA as much as possible, go right ahead.

I wonder what impact tilapia would have on the FHM/BG/CC in a newly stocked pond? We've had good reports from ML & others that they help BG populations in established ponds. But what affect would they have if initially stocked at the same time? Thoughts, anyone?

My thoughts have not changed from this prior thread. A better use in the initial first year stocking would be a few brood tilapia and not yoy tilapia. Then use your preferred stocking of other fingerling fish (LMB , CC , BG/CNBG , RES , HSB , SMB , FH , Gams or whatever)


Tilapia as initial forage

http://www.pondboss.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=000459;p=1


Subsequent to this thread I found this study.

Comparative Evaluation of Two Tilapias as Pond fishes in Alabama
H. S. SWlNGLE

"Excerpts" :

PRODUCTION IN PONDS STOCKED WITH BROOD TILAPIAS AND LARGEMOUTH BASS

The earliest broods of tilapias were usually

small, and consequently these individuals

rapidly grew too large for small fingerling

bass to eat. When largemouth bass were

stocked in excess of 100 per acre, few were

able to grow large enough to feed upon 3-

and 4-inch tilapias. The maximum production

of bass in such combinations was 73 pounds

per acre. Low production was due to the very

short period during which the young tilapia

were available to bass and to the small size

(1 to 2 inches) of the bass stocked.

When 100 bass of the 1-inch group per acre

were stocked with brood tilapia April 15 to

20, they were able to attain an average size

of 0.3 to 0.5 pound by the following August 1,

when the ponds were open to fishing. This

growth was much faster than that obtained in

bluegill-bass populations.

When brood tilapias were stocked in estab-

lished bluegill-bass populations in May, they

were found to reproduce in May or June,

but the young subsequently disappeared, ap-

parently victims of bass predation. Hofstede

and Botke (1950) also have reported that the

Java tilapia became abundant in Indonesian

waters only where predation was absent.

The most effective use of bass predation

was in Pond S-1157, where bass were not

added until August. At this time many young-

of-the-year tilapia were too large to be eaten,

but the addition of bass reduced the survival

of tilapias which hatched subsequently. The

rate of feeding was then doubled, causing

many of the larger fingerling tilapias to grow

to harvestable size. This procedure resulted in

a production of 2,453 pounds harvestable

fish per acre (Table 1).


PRODUCTION OF TILAPIAS WITH FINGERLING STOCKING


A second possibility remained with finger-

ling stock -- the use of the repressive factor to

control reproduction (Swingle, 1957a). This

procedure involves stocking at such a rate

that fish grow readily, but by the time they

are sexually mature, they have excreted or

secreted into the water sufficient amounts of

a repressive factor to reduce materially or

prevent reproduction. This practice is used

in carp culture and was used to develop a

system of commercial culture of the speckled

bullhead (Swingle, 1957b). Results of ex-

periments with various rates of stocking fin-

gerling tilapias are given in Table 3.


This study is full of info but it was written from the perspective of Tilapia as an aquaculture food program (how to get food size tilapia for humans) as efficiently as possible. My understanding is that the LMB did better during their first year if brood tilapia were there so the LMB could eat most of the subsequently born yoy tilapia , but where yoy tilapia were stocked along with the yoy LMB (at yoy rates) their was the potential for the yoy tilapia to grow to fast and start reproducing and end up stunting and taking up to much of the pond's carrying capacity.