Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Strange Fishing

Since we have been talking about fishing for grinnel and gar, I wonder what other kinds of fishing there might be that most of us haven’t seen. I’ll start it off with a true story from 1966.

A man who had a large fishhook embedded in his forearm came into the emergency room where I was working as an intern. As I removed the hook, he told me he was a stevedore who worked on the Napoleon Street Wharf. The dock workers often put chicken necks on such hooks, attached them to a length of clothesline, and tied the bitter end of the line off on a bollard, tossing the neck to float in the river while they unloaded and loaded cargo. They would put a can on top of a piling and run the line over the can, so when a channel cat took the bait, they would hear or see the can fall over. As this man was hauling a large cat up from water level to the pier, the fish fell off, the nylon line popped up like a rubber band, and the hook ended up in his arm. (The energy stored in stretched nylon is very great. It was not uncommon for the large nylon lines holding barge strings together to break and fly back with such force as to seriously injure or kill barge workers, and I suppose it still happens.)

Nowadays, the old wharfs of New Orleans are mostly empty, and most of the cargo is containerized. Dock workers are essentially operating engineers, and I suppose that kind of fishing has pretty much disappeared, too.
Lou

Besides Bowfin and Gar, I've set out specifically to catch a few more unusual species.

Paddlefish aka Spoonbill are my absolute favorite. Snagging for them in the spring at Kentucky Dam. It's tiring but fun, and they are tasty!

Freshwater Drum - common here in So. Indiana, I've been trying to work up the courage to eat one.

One fun experience I had was "jugging" for big blue cats on the Wabash River one night.

Blackjack, you got me interested in knowing more about spoonbills. I recall them being sold at fish markets in my hometown on the Mississippi. Turns out that they are not catfish and that they have been around for even longer than bowfin! I have never eaten any, but their meat and roe have an excellent reputation. Since they are filter-feeders, I would love to have a few in my pond, just for variety, but they are said to need running water. Has anyone tried transplanting small ones to their aquatic kingdoms?

I run into freshwater drum when float-fishing with my son in the turbulent water below the generators at Wilson and Wheeler dams on the Tennessee river for smallmouth. They are considered pests by smallmouth fishermen. They have all the fight of a dead possum and usually don’t even seem aware that they are in a bad spot when you get them to the boat. I have never tried keeping one. They also have a (probably undeserved, but I don’t know ) reputation for being wormy, at least in north Alabama, but the net sez that their meat is commercially important for some.
Lou

Spoonies Rock! Not a bone in the entire fish, just a gelatinous cord called a notocord or something like that instead of a spine (somebody on here told me that name). They taste considerably like swordfish when grilled.

At KY Dam, April is prime time to snag'em. 8/0 to 10/0 treble hooks, 80 lb line, Penn Saltwater Reels, and custom made rods that remind me of halibut rods.

I know they can survive in ponds, I "noodled" one from a pond being drained (about 10 lbs). Bass Pro Shops in Clarksville IN even has a couple in their big aquarium.

In fact, I remember seeing someone selling "pellet trained" paddlefish somewhere, though I don't see how that's possible considering their filter feeders. Let me try to find it real quick....

here it is http://www.mckenzieco.com/fish.html
I'd personally love to try the sturgeon! We have'em here but I've never caught one and I hear they taste great.

Heronblu, you sound like a person who likes variety and the unusual (like myself). I'm not a trophy fisherman, I keep a lifelist. I hope to catch just about every species available to me at some point. I found one site just recently that caters to just that. http://www.roughfish.com/

blackjack, you are my hero of the day. great links. looks like spoonies and sturgeon might work in ponds. deep bows. thanx

We caught about a dozen last December while walleying in the Mississippi. Never thought about putting some in the pond, but now I've gotta try it. There's a season, if I can remember the dates this year, I'll give it a shot. That's usually before the ponds ice over, so I can transport them in the livewell easily. I'll let you all know if they go "tits up" (that's a Nicolaism that I'm quite fond of).

Folks, one thing to consider, with a filter feeder of that size, I'm afraid that the zooplankton will all be taken up by these fish and none left to suport other pond life. They will deplete food needed to support minnows and small fish.

Here is some info on Polyodon spathula aka spoonbill.

Prior PB post
http://www.pondboss.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=20;t=002288#000014

EFISH
http://www.cnr.vt.edu/efish/families/polyodontidae.html

FishBase
http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=174

They really start jumping in the oxbow lakes about now. If you want a shocking experience wait until a big one (40lbs.) jumps 3 ft. out of the water and crashes down a couple feet from your boat while you sit still fishing for BG on a quiet and still early mourning outing.

You have a point, Burgermeister, but most of the nitrogen and phospherous they take in will end up right back in the water pretty quick, and most of the rest will, eventually--unless you or your friendly neighborhood water turkey takes it out. Thus, they will feed the very phytoplankton they eat and that will feed the zooplankton they also eat. Even in a small pond, I don't see how one or two can deplete the local microzoosphere (I do enjoy making up names which sound sorta' like they may be scientific :p ) very much. Think of how many Tilapia a green pond can support, yet it stays green. Does anyone know of any studies on depletion of planktonic density by filter feeders?
Lou

Lou :

Since you ask -- yes. There are a number of studies which discuss that matter. Most deal with GSD or TFS but others as well. Keep in mind that planktonic sources (including zoo) have great varience and different fish at certain ages are dependant on the right one or two being there at the right time.

After reading this I guess it is safe to say it all depends. What is amazing is that real quick 2 of the forum members quickly identified the correct possible outcomes and the logic behind both possible right answers. Good thinking guys.


Reservoir Ranching of Paddlefish

RICHARD J. ONDERS AND STEVEN D. MIMS

Aquaculture Research Center, Kentucky State University,

CHANGZHENG WANG

Community Research Service, Kentucky State University,

WILLIAM D. PEARSON

Biology Department, University of Louisville,


"Filter-feeding fish are able to cause dramatic changes in planktonic communities and nutrient cycling because of the potential for filtering great volumes of water (Drenner et al. 1982). Intense predation on zooplankton can result in either sharp declines in the biomass of large zooplankton or shifts in the community structure toward dominance by smaller species that are not efficient grazers of phytoplankton (Hrba´cek et al. 1961; Brooks and Dodson 1965). The result can thus be increased phytoplankton biomass (Andersson et al. 1978; Lynch and Shapiro 1981). Burke and Bayne (1986) found that paddlefish stocked at 990/ha in polyculture with channel catfish and blue catfish Ictalurus furcatus depressed zooplankton densities, with a concurrent increase in the standing crop of phytoplankton and a decrease in nutrient availability. Although their paddlefish stocking rate was excessive, their study illustrates the potential impact of paddlefish grazing on an aquatic community. However, we observed no such effects attributable to paddlefish grazing."

This study used 10/ha PF but they were small 1/2 lbs at stocking to 7-15lbs. at the end (not 20lb stockers) and the surviving # was much lower at 3.8/ha .

I keep reading and trying to understand this 'microzoosphere' phenomenum. Why would anyone want to use fish that filter out the(big) little animal critters and re-process it to cause more little green plants(phyto)to grow. As the report stated, it changes the community structure toward smaller zooplankton. What is being accomplished? I'm thinking I want larger daphnia, cyclops, microcrustaceans etc. in my pond. Where am I off base here?

You are not off base.2 different studies one yes one no. It is only a question of pond size and plankton density vs. density (# and lbs.) of paddlefish. That is why I said it all depends. Could also state it as how bad do you want PF vs. the risk of harm to your other pond fish . One PF in a large pond with good plankton density may not make much impact but a bunch in a smaller pond could be trouble.

Now, this Paddlefish stuff is fascinating. A fish that can actually change the cycle of life in a pond. If it's that bad, I can't believe that I haven't tried it.