Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Tilapia Populations With HSB

ML and George, both of you are using Tilapia in conjunction with your grow out ponds for HSB. A curious question: are the tilapia multiplying in large numbers even with the HSB stocked? ML when you drain your grow out pond this fall would be interested to know if the population of Tilapia is huge, controlled or scarce particularly with the smaller sizes. I am looking for clues of what I might expect in the future with my pond in Thailand that has Tilapia but does not die out in the winter. Possibly would give me a hint on whether to remove or return the Talipia when fishing as they are a large part of my forage for the Peacock Bass. Also might help indicate at what point to start taking the predators out.

My pond is turpid (15" visibility), but I don't often see schools of Tilapia skimming the surface or many small ones around the edges, have stocked over 20,000 of different sizes. What are your observations in the ponds now, do you see the Tilapia schools moving or many fry on the edges? I once fished in Wilson Reservoir in Oahu and would see swarms of Tilapia moving around, Wilson had both LMB and PB, but more pressure than my pond.

The PB has habits with many similarities to the HSB, they like to hunt in schools and will herd and run bait fish up on banks often chasing them across the pond.

Anyone else with Tilapia in their ponds would be interested to know your observations also.

Don,

In spite of all my comments favorable to Tilapia, and they have many, many wonderful attributes, I do not believe I would stock them if they survived year around....that would be a tough decision.

Last fall, as the temps first began cooling, I observed a school of 6 to 12 inch Tilapia just milling around just below the surface. I would conservately estimate 200 fish in that school. Frankly, it frightened me thinking that I was headed to a massive fish kill when the water temps dropped. It did not happen. The HSB, by observation, litterally slaughtered the Tilapia as they became somewhat lethargic with declining temps.

After the die-off happened, I found very few, less than half a dozen of dead Tilapia. My conclusion is that they were all consumed by HSB and LMB.

In a pond with no predators, I saw a massive fish kill of small Tilapia.

Don, I wrote a paper summarizing all this and would be happy to send it to you (or anyone) if interested.

My research has taken me to articles about the lakes in Mexico where Tilapia do survive year around. In summary, they have found excellent LMB fishing in lakes that also receive heavy netting pressures on Tilapia...lakes without that continual harvesting of Tilapia have had problems with LMB fry survival.

Okay, I could go on and on, but to answer your question more directly...if I had a pond with year around surviving Tilapia, I would keep every one of them caught and would probably even set up traps or nets to catch others. Don, we are talking about a fish that reproduces like crazy. Its great in a controlled environment, e.g. winter kill, but something to be cautious about in an uncontroled environment.

p.s. if you are not seeing them, then I would say you must have an excellent predator population. I see them regularly, small, medium, and large as the season goes on.

p.s.s the paper is on its way...check your e-mail

Meadowlark,
I would like a copy of your paper as well. started with 100 99% male and am starting to see tilapia fry. I will need to remove them as they are caught soon. They are now competing with the pacu for pellets.

Don, my pond was stocked this May with Tilapia averaging 1 lb. each. They have grown and reproduced, and we occasionally see small ones which have washed over the spillway. When my bloom is good (visibility to 15-18 inches) I see nary a one–adult or fry. When it begins to clear to about 24 inches, I see them all over the shallows. My conclusion is that you should expect Tilapia to be invisible when phytoplankton is heavy, but will see then if it ever clears up. I would like to know from others if they have noticed this same thing.
Lou

Rad,

Your wish is my command...electrons flowing your way.

ML, could you send me one as well?

harned_s@bellsouth.net

Thanks

You know Meadowlark may just be right, again. Tilapia may soon rule the world. Think of a forage species that grows fast, reproduces rapidly and eats it's predator's fry. And, they are trying to breed them for salt water. Can cold water be far behind? Don, did you mean 20 thousand tilapia?

Thanks for all the observations. The Peacock Bass was introduced into the Miami canals to control the exploding Tilapia populations, hopefully will do the same in my pond. Peacock Bass are also known to be invasive similar to LMB so am hoping that nature takes its course resulting in balanced populations.

Outstanding, well written paper of Meadowlark's experiences would recommend it to all that plan to or have stocked the Tilapia, thanks for sending it M/L. Also agree with M/L for those that can sustain a year round population to approach with caution and if you do stock ensure an adequate predator base.

Rad in some of my research on Tilapia have seen where up to 15% of all male Tilapia are / or will turn female and that they can actually change sexes...not uncommon for Thailand!!!

Rad, yes I do mean 20,000. Was not real wise when originally stocking the PB as they went in before the Tilapia so played a little catch up...was not a Pond Boss meister at that time!

I have several other species for a forage base and a few other predators. On the first release of 50 (4) inch Peacock Bass only a few survived, thanks to Mr. Snakehead. On the second and third releases (50 PB each), I released 1000 similar sized Tilapia and several subsequent stockings of 1000 fish of varying sizes to cut down predation and add forage for the Peacocks. It has seemed to work well. All of the Tilapia were unsexed. I do not see swarms of the them... so far but will know more of how it is going when I return home next week.

*You know the Tilapia was in aquaculture in Israel 2,000 years ago, some think that they might be the fish that fed the masses! :rolleyes:

ML I'd appreciate copy of you paper as well, thanks

zzzhouston@hotmail.com

This guy/girl? was 1 3/4" on Mar 24, weighs 1 1/4lbs. I also caught 2nd generation and I can see what looks like 3,4 and 5, hanging around the edges. Usually the only time I see the tilapia is at feeding time, just before and for an hour or so after. They are late sleepers and most of the day you would never know they were there.

Rad nice fish! Not sure but the stomach almost looks like a spawned out female...maybe generation 6 is in the pond!

RAD,

Beautiful fish. I like the color. What subspecies is it?

Rad, I believe you are right. We've had a lot of discussions about fish evolving subject to their environment. One day, a Tilapia will come along with the right chemistry to survive the Texas winters...when that happens, look out!! These fish are capable of just about anything, including changing genetics! If they can change sex, why not?

Just a nile, the color is due to the water in my pond. A kid caught one and put it in his pond and several days later it was the normal black color. The pacu are the same, he took one of them also and it turned black as well.

Here are some observations and conclusions from our tilapia production this year.

Tilapia recruitment in Florida LMB Brooder pond is limited due to presence of green sunfish and many LMB, regardless of the bloom, regardless of the brooder tilapia population. Last year we stocked tilapia brooders on top of Florida LMB brood stock, got excellent reproduction from tilapia, and had great bass forage through fall. No green sunfish at that time.

Tilapia reproduction best with no predators, stocked at 20 lbs/acre, as now the ponds are already at close to max production potential, limited by our aeration capabilities.

Tilapia are spawning in HSB fingerling production pond, and we observe many tilapia fry around the banks and at water inflow points in pond. HSB stocking rate is 10,000/acre. Physically scattering the tilapia fry away from the bank reveals HSB ambush from all directions. Because HSB have relatively small mouth compared to LMB, tilapia recruitment should be better in HSB ponds as tilapia grow very quickly.

Tilapia fry survival in F1 LMB growout pond is null due to predation. Bloom is good.

All of our ponds have fair/good plankton bloom, none of them have vegetation for cover, and all of them are stocked heavy.

Because success stories from tilapia stocked ponds vary, as described by our customers, I believe tilapia recruitment hinges upon several factors:

Population of fingerling predators like LMB/HSB, even sunfish of all types

Phytoplankton bloom density

Vegetation density, or physical cover

Timing and size of tilapia stocked

I'm sure other factors contribute

Todd thanks for posting your observations, a lot of variables for sure to think of and each pond with its own environs will react differently in the recruitment of Tilapia. Of course your stocking ratios are higher than mine but your experiences are diverse.

Thus far I don't believe that I have a problem with an out of control population as I've never seen massive schools of the fish and never swarms around the banks. I linked this topic of Tilapia to HSB as they are a closer match in habit to the Peacock Bass. With the shared wisdom of the forum members it sure makes it far easier to jump start my own observations from a more grounded base.

Don,

I'd like to hear all about your PB...maybe you could start another post. I know most of us can't raise them, but just from an interest standpoint, I'd appreciate your description of PB in a pond environment. Thanks.

Always seeking information