Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations State Record Perch denied

Just to inform those of you that were following this I was told everything was legit and documented with my entry, but due to unique circumstances and "unwritten guidelines" it cannot be accepted. I was told The fish grew "larger and bigger" than a "natural fish" could because of the "environment and artifical feeding program."

Should we tell them feeding fish an artifical diet in a pond is common place now?

No big deal. I'm just happy that I was able to grow a fish this big out of the pond due to my management skills. I think I can get them over 3 lbs. as they have a few more years to live.

Gotta love them "unwritten rules". :rolleyes:

That sounds bogus to me.

I think your Perch should be listed in the state record books - even if they have to add an asterisk.
Almost all wildlife growth has been influenced by human activity. Many record book Bucks were shot after they grew up eating field crops.
I would guess that many record book fish have been taken from lakes stocked with non-native forage. Many fingerlings introduced into lakes were raised on a diet of pellets.
I think the States should adopt some uniform trophy standards before someone grows out a new record book LMB.

Sorry to hear that, Cecil.

Hopefully Congress won't subpoena you to testify on unnatural growth enhancements in fish.

God I hope not Theo!

Just thought of something; If the perch is not natural how natural is the state record HYBRID bluegill, the Tiger Musky (hybrid of pike and musky) or the tiger trout (brook an brown hybrid).

I'll let it go. I promise!

I think a 3/4 acre pond is much bigger than a cattle tank don't you?

I was the only one to catch perch the day this one was caught so it can't be like shooting fish in a barrel. It took me two weeks to even find the bigger perch in the pond.

But I get your drift. :p

23 pounds eh?

Cecil, I think I would protest.
Do you know any news paper outdoor writers who would be intrested doing an article?

Here in NC there is no stipulation of how the fish got big. Just how it was harvested.

I would definetly rais a stink!

What has this world come to with politics ? Isn't a fish a fish ? With your system, you're pond management skills are supressed from the public, records are denied from the books. Money and/or endorsements are there if you LIE about where and how you caught it. Keep your chin up Cecil, honesty says a LOT about a persons character, and we're jealous of the pride you feel raising a Monster fish. I just hope I can get my fish weighing in at 100%

Hey Cecil- I'm gonna raise wild turkeys with my tame turkeys. In 3 years just before they die, I'll wrap a sock around their beards, feed the hell out of em' with grower feed and let em' walk around the lot till your turkey season out there. (should be about 32 lbs, with a 14" beard)Then let me release him on your place, I'll shoot him with a broadhead. Then we'll come back to my place with your perch, put him in my pond, you catch him and we'll go down in the record books in two states. Just a thought- (anyhow kinda teasing you here, you've been helpful in answering my stupid questions on this forum and I appreciate it-hope you have a sense of humor-good luck with getting your fish stuffed) Postbeetle

Cecil - Since your pellet fed perch, which as you note may not have been eating very many pellets due to bass aggressiveness, does not qualify as a natural fish for state record status, then I ask the question, what is the difference between feeding the fish pellets vs artificially fertilizing your pond, and OR constantly introducing minnows or forage fish into a pond to keep the other fish growing? Where is the dividing line?

Bill,

Good points. What about introducing Florida bass into Texas or California, or F1's elsewhere. Is that natural? How about stripers into freshwater reservoirs or hybrid stripers etc, etc. If anyone is doing something unnatural with fish it's the states that are enforcing this themselves. Can you say calling the kettle black? And aren't a lot of these fish feed trained early to get a head start?

We've got several public lakes that have automatic feeders here in Nebraska. Does that mean that any state records caught from these bodies of water won't count?!? Or are we going to say that the records count, but only if the state biologists made poor management decisions? Heaven forbid that a large fish would come from a water body with both feeding and GOOD management!!! Cecil, I think you got jobbed.

I just remembered a publication my DNR puts out. IMHO I think they are contradicting themselves on this. Here are a few quotes from their publication titled, "Pond Management." The link for this publication is:

http://www.in.gov/dnr/fishwild/publications/fsmgt/fishmgt.pdf

"The natural fertility of ponds is usually sufficient for providing enough food organisms for normal fish growth. Supplemental feeding costs money and take time. Fish must first learn to eat commercial pellets for optimum learning... If a pond owner wishes to supplementally feed fish, it should only be done to provide a SMALL BOOST to fish growth in an already balanced pond."

This is a very hard problem in terms of where to draw the line. If a person really wanted to raise a world record LMB, the best place to do it is probably in a raceway or very small pond where it is the only fish. A person would have lots of these set up and provide the best food and environmental conditions possible. What we get into then is who can grow the biggest fish. I think that there is a difference between who can grow the biggest fish and who can catch the biggest fish under somewhat natural conditions.

Norm,

As far as world record bass it's already been tried and hasn't happend yet even with years of effort and lots of money. Bass planted in natural waters are growing the biggest as witnessed by the bass coming out of California reservoirs.

There's more to producing an exceptionally large fish than feeding it. Genetics, environment, growing season, lack of stress, intraspecies competition, interspecies competition etc.

To say the third largest perch ever entered in state records of the United States was just due to feeding is really nuts.

Cecil, those state bureaucrats certainly are a bunch of bitches.

I think that you should be able to get that perch listed as a record somewhere. As dumb as this may sound, would something like the Guiness Book of World Records be an option.

Sunil,

It's really not important but I thought of setting up a website for pond growers to see who can grow the largest fish of each species. It would be kind of fun. Kind of like a big pumpkin growing contest.

I posted here to see if Bob would be interested in something like this in the magazine but I don't believe I got a response.

I think that the pond meister competition for large species would be interesting. Maybe top ten for each species by state? Pictures and measurements could be sent to verify the length and weights of these fish. That would be very fun to see what people are growing. Or maybe a place on this site to post monthly trophy fish caught by pondboss members. That way people can show the fruits of their hard work. Even though it might not be a record fish. We would have to set up some sort of guidelines per species for example bass over 8lbs. or trout over 5lbs etc.

Looks like your perch would have qualified as a state record according to Missouri's rules,....

http://www.conservation.state.mo.us/documents/fish/records/fishrec.pdf

Since our local states cannot agree on trophy standards, I think we need to start our own National organization to recognize trophy fish. - Simular to the way Pope & Young recognizes trophy deer.

Hope your next perch is a world record!

That is crazy. Just because your "Barry Bonds" Perch may or may not have taken "Cream" & "Clear" from Balco Labs doesn't mean it is not a record.

I have supplement fed many a bass in public water with my baits over the years (them just stealing it off the hook or catch and release).

I catch redears in my pond regularly from 1 - 1.5 lbs. but yours is incredible even with supplemental feeding.

Gainesjs,

It would qualify in my state too and they even admitted I had followed all the rules correctly. However it was said there were some "unwritten guiding principals" involved here. I guess what bothers me the most is I have tried to suggest improvements in their program due to my involvement in mounting several state records, but I was ignored.

I know a good lawyer could blow their denial out of the water without ammunition, but it's not worth it.

I see problems down the road if they continue to make the rules up as they go. Someone won't be as nice as me.

I've sat back and thought about this. I think the real issue behind the disqualification might be their thoughts about whether the public has the same access to the fish that the private landowner or private club has. They may not admit it but, I would expect that to be the real reason.

It in no way negates the accomplishment of raising the record fish. The very fact that it had a chance to grow to that size takes a lot of skill, commitment, hard work, TLC, babysitting and luck. Some of the luck involves genes but it also helps that you went fishing that day and caught it before something tragic happened to it. Not every private pond owner can either raise it or catch it and you might not ever be able to do it again.

I'm not sure that they ought to certify the deer shot behind a high fence or the $20,000 bull elk that have been carefully raised and turned loose to be shot. But they do and thats not near as hard as doing what you have done.

Geez, I hope you don't write an expose' like Jose Canseco did. If you do, I've never heard of you.

Cecil, sorry to hear about your situation. Here in Virginia we have specific guidelines about state record AND citation sized fish. One of the stipulations is that they can contain NO artificial feed in their bellies.

As a side note, I'd be happy to help design a website for Pondmeisters to record large and citation fish. I've got lots of experience with HTML, a little PHP, and some graphics work.

Chris

Tritonvt,

I be really interested but right now financially I have other commitments. More work on two ponds, more aerators, possibly upgrading the pump to 60 gpms and buying fish. However if you want to give me a price I may swing it later. I definitely believe in paying someone for what they are worth.

Cecil, if raising a world record LMB hasn't been achieved yet, there must be some other limiting factor. That limiting factor might be the size of the area the fish are being raised in. When some plants (bonsai) and fish (aquariums) are confined to small areas, they don't grow very large. Might this be happening with LMB? What do you think?

On another subject, I send all of my Science News magazines to Steve Barlow who is an outstanding young biologist at Lower Suwannee NWR in Florida. However, if you wish, I could send you the New Scientist magazines once a month. Let me know if you want them.