Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Building a dam Syphon Drainage System - Referral & Freezing ?s

Hi guys.

I just read the previous thread here and I also am very interested in this system for my half acre pond.

I live in the Northern Virginia area. I'd love to see one of these as installed, and I could probably make a trip anywhere Virginia north of Charlottsville, Maryland, northern West Virginia, and even south-central Pennsylvania ... if there is anyone here who has one and would like to show it off.

I also am concerned about the freeze issue. Sounds as if, should the vent pipe get clogged with ice, it could end up perpetuating the suction, and drain the pond pretty low. I saw the comment about a bubbler / aerator as a solution.

Our pond typically freezes over a maximum of 2/3 weeks each year. I have no idea how thick the ice is, tho.

Hearing from someone with a similar system in an area this cold ... or colder ... would go a long way toward resolving my doubts.

I'm also interested. The only solution to the freeze issue (as in busting pipes) I've seen though is an aeration system. My lake doesn't have electricity near it. I haven't figured out a way around that yet... Maybe windmills for electricity generation which would charge batteries to power the aerator?...

Using steel and dismantling may be the best option. I don't know.

One of the issues is that I already have 400 feet of 14 inch PVC ordered. I've been communicating with ponddampiping about the angle connections and such.

I'm thinking that heavy duty PVC pipe of that size won't be much fun moving around and reconnecting very often. Plus, I was thinking about digging it in a little bit so could mow overtop it and etc. The only problem is that freeze issue.

My lake gets a lot of drainage so I would almost have to drain it down a good 15 - 20 feet each fall before disconnecting to avoid a lot of water going over the spillway. Doing that would run risk of freezing more if didn't get the normal rains. It would also really concentrate all the fish which could make my fathead population disappear faster.

I agree that there should be some good option. I just haven't figured it out. Please let all of us know if you figure it out or devise something that works well.

I saw were a windmill was suggested to generate electricity to power a aerator. I would suggest by passing the electricity and use a windmill to directly aerate the pond. I am a dealer for superior windmills, who manfactures a windmill desighned specifically for this purpose. If any one is interested I would be happy to send some info. Send me a email with name and address to matthewheadrick@yahoo.com

w: I think I may wind up with a couple small siphon pipes running all winter if can get the pipe soon. They shouldn't freeze up if water running through them and I doubt if the pressure from surrounding ice would be enough to crush them.

Matthew: I emailed you. Concern about relying on windmill vs. batteries is that windmill might not always be turning to prevent ice buildup. Was thinking battery (even though less efficient) might keep aerator going when no wind present. You probably know better than I if that train of logic is feasible. Jeff

I still haven't heard from anybody in my area with this system. I did call PondDamPiping in GA and their distributer in Roanoke, VA to see if they could locate an installation ... but not sure when the info would arrive.

I did find out from the local G-man that most winters will see a freeze putting ice 2 inches thick on the ponds ... and he has heard of extended spells putting 18 inches on!!

I can understand how an aerator can prevent some freezing. But I am having a hard time visualizing how to lay things out (aiming the aerator, etc.) so that the pipe doesn't get a big ice block at the water line ... and burst. How large a surface area will an aerator keep ice-free?

And Ranger, I imagine Illinois might have a similar climate. What are the maximum freeze conditions you are anticipating?

My house is only a football field or two from the pond ... so I will probably be able to run either electricity or an airpipe from the house out there. I'll need to read up to understand the trade-offs.

I haven't talked with anyone official to see how much ice we normally have. I know we usually have enough to do some ice fishing for a few weeks. It seems like much of the ice was 8 - 10" last year when we went ice fishing. I never checked to see how deep it was on my lake. I know it didn't freeze over as quickly as some others.

DaRube: Did you ever find an example of a siphon permanently placed in a freezing weather climate? Still interested whether this would work. Jeff

ranger, what did you do with all the 14" pipe?

Still got it. Not sure what to do with it. Thinking about bundling it together well and putting it in the pond for storage / structure for time being...

....Ebay, my man. I bought 800 ft of 6" PVC Sched 40 pressure quality for my project. It came right outta Ebay. Good deal for seller and buyer...the best kinda sale.

I installed a system here in Kansas, haven't had much rain since it was built so it's not full.
I am fairly confident freezing will not be a problem because I put the vent pipe higher than the water level.
The highest point of the main pipe DETERMINES THE WATER LEVEL (Normal Pool) and is buried in the dam. When the water gets higher than that point it runs through by gravity like a traditional system. Since it's buried in the dam freezing is not a problem.
Only when there is enough overflow to run a full pipe will the siphon start. The siphon is not necessary to control the water at all, it's just happens after enough overflow fills the pipe.
Once started the siphon would draw the water down past Normal Pool, which is bad, so a vent is installed to break the siphon.
Since the vent is not necessary for water release it can be installed inches, or even feet, above normal pool.
When the pond is overflowing and the pipe is running full, the amount of water running through the pipe will increase when the vent is submerged. The outlet of the main pipe being lower will draw or suck increasing the speed of the water through the main pipe (siphon).