Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Ice and Snow Covered Pond in Northern OH

We are snow/ice bound in winter's grip and so is our pond, which is about 1/3 acre here in northern OH. We have had the aerator going 24/7 for about the last 3 weeks. There is about 6" of snow on our pond. The aerator is still doing its job - however it can barely keep up with this frigid weather. The ice free "hole" is now about 4' and if this weather, continues, we fear it will close completely. Would it help if we shoveled off the snow around the edges of the pond to let some light shine in ( although the sun is rather anemic )? How can we make a new hole in the ice if the present one freezes over? With the aerator on, we dare note venture more than a foot off shore - not knowing the thickness of the ice.
We did all the winter prep work ie scraping out the leaves - taking care of decaying plant life before the pond froze, however, I still worry about the loss of o2. Should we leave the aerator on even if the whole pond freezes over? Thanks for all suggestions and help.

Kay, I would shut the aerator off and let the hole freeze clear,You have some zero temps coming tonight and to pump that cold of water to the bottom will do more harm to fish than the small amount of air you will supply.You should have plenty of o2 for now. It will warm up some Monday or Tue and you can turn the system back on long enough to reopen the ice if you want.I usually figure I can melt about 4 inches of ice per day with a good system.By first of the week you may have 2 inches of new ice,Its no big deal if it takes longer.You did not mention if fish were a concern but since you are running your system I assume they are.Is there a reason you are running your3 24/7 in that size pond? Ted

Ted,
Thanks for your input. Yes, our pond is stocked. We have bluegill, bass, golden shiners, creek chubs. I have had the pump on 24/7 because I have read that the fish need light and also 02. I dont know if our pump could pump through 4" of ice. We had almost the same situation last year, and left our pump on. We lost only about 20 bgill and no bass. Kay

Kay,

The hole most likely will not close up and will get larger again once temps moderate. That has been my experience here in northern Indiana.

I used to run a diffuser 24/7 in my 1/2 acre pond, and have since learned that I although I may have prevented winterkill I did stress my fish by supercooling the water. I have not run mine at all this winter and am monitoring oxygen levels and keep the snow for the most part off the pond. So far so good.

I have noticed since I have not run my diffuser at all this winter my pond temp profile is milder than last year even though the diffuser was offset to the side of the pond for winter to prevent to much mixing.

Bill Cody also has good advice on aeration in ponds in winter. He's from Ohio too.

Hi Kay, Cecil has some good points.Your pump should be at least 1.5 CFM depending on your diffuser.Do you know what pump and diffuser you have as even a 7inch medium pore stone (not plugged) will keep an open area all winter(common on windmills) What depth is your pond and where do you have your diffuser placed? Also if you have a pressure guage on your system I can tell you if you are plugging.Figure 1/2 lb of air needed to push 1 ft of depth or a diffuser in 12 ft of water will usually show about 7 lb in the winter (cooler heavier water) I only run the systems in our display ponds to create clear ice and monitor the DO level and find my levels dont drop below 5-6 ppm in the evening which is when you will typically have a reduction.If I have clear ice for more than 2-3 weeks I will open up an area to allow for gass escape if the air temps are not below 20 degree F. I also believe that super cooling the pond bottom in not good as fish need a warm area 39 F to maintain health. The every 2-3 weeks is just a guess as I do not monitor those levels.In a pond your size we normally install a diffuser in a shallow area offset to the main diffuser to allow for winter mixing. If the pump is only 1-1.5 CFM then we run a seperate line with a manifold so we can run the shallow one in the winter and the main one in the spring summer and fall.If your diffuser area freezes up and your system will not reopen it something is wrong and you may not be getting the positive effects in the summer either. Hope this helps Ted

Kay, I reread your original post and should of ask you if by any chance the "aerator" you refer to is a fountain type unit instead of a bottom diffuser with on shore compressed air ? Ted

Ted is giving you some good advice. I hope my chiming in and saying Bill Cody also gives good advice did not take away from what Ted is saying. I did not mean to do that.

Hi Cecil, I would highly advise everyone to do a "search"under Bill Cody. BC always has some great information and some real food for thought.It is interesting to look at all of Bill's posts on such a wide scale of aquatic topics.The many hours of reading past posts by everyone are such a wealth of knowledge. I also recommend everyone that uses or views this forum to be a subscriber to POND BOSS,its a great little investment.Take care, Ted

Ted- I would have to guess she is refering to a water pump as opposed to an airpump.

Our winter average is consistently below 0 degrees Fahrenheit and I have yet to have any problem keeping an 8 foot diameter or greater hole in 18-26" thick ice using aeration. (As mentioned many times on this website I don't run the diffuser/airstones at the bottom but about half depth.)

Now if I tried the same thing with a waterpump/fountain I have no doubt I would have a very hard time keeping a hole open in the ice.

Kay evidently doesn't check this daily. We will have wait for her additional information.

Thanks to all of you who answered my request about the concern I have with our pond freezing completely. I don't get a chance to check this web site, which has a wealth of information, as much as I would like to.
We are presently using a 1/3hp diaphragm compressor pump. It produces 1.5cpm @ 10psi and will pump to a max depth of 30'. We put the diffuser ( which is the type you use for windmills - probably about a 8 to 10" long ) in a water depth of around 8 to 10' deep. One of the reason we used the above pump - probably the main reason - it is made in the USA. It does seem to be doing the job. I have never checked the 02 levels this winter because there was no open water close to shore.
The hole never did close - although it came close to it. The temps here in Northern OH have "warmed" up. I think it it suppose to be about 40today. We had freezing rain last night and all that slush is now on top of the thick snow cover.
It still is not clear to me why the fish would fare better with no aerator in the winter. Our pond would have frozen solid with about 4-6" of snow over it. No one would venture out to shovel it - because of the risk factor with the ice. So I guess what I am asking is this, with total blackness and no aeration wouldn't there be a big loss of fish? Thanks - we really appreciate the help.

No not really Kay, there are many of us who do not have an aerator and also have frozen ponds, snow covered and all, our fish do fine. Think of it, how many people have aerators on the millions of ponds in the U.S. and Canada. Not many, and those of the majority, do not have fish kills, not big ones anyway. So your answer, in my opinion is, Don't worry about it for now. If you have weeks of no sun light penetration, then you might have a reason to be concerned. Fish are cold blooded, and when temps. drop into the freezing range they become almost dormant, and don't need as much food or oxygen. They adapt.

HI Kay,Every pond is different as far as the demand for o2 or its (BOD).A rule of thumb for a pond your size is that if you have an area of clear ice then the macro algae and o2 producing plants will produce enough oxygen to sustain your fish and themselves. Keep in mind that in darkness that respiration removes oxygen even though the demand is low there is no sense in risking the fine line. So keep an area of open water or clear ice and you'll be fine. If your diffuser will not keep an 8-10 ft area open then you may have a partially plugged diffuser, if your pond freezes clear and becomes snow covered your system will (should) melt a hole in the ice in time.If I have clear ice for more than a few weeks I usually open the ice up to let it gas off for a day or so.Not scientific but I sleep better that way. I can not STRESS enough to let EVERYONE know to stay off of the ice when you are using this method as you will have thick and thin ice. I see on the Lima Ohio news that a young boy was walking his dog on the ice two days ago and broke through and drown. I do not know if an aerator was involved or not but most unaerated ponds have at least a foot of ice on them in central and northern Ohio. If there is any chance someone may wander out on your pond then leave your aerator off until spring. This is one of the problems with the windmill aerators in very cold temps as they will freeze over and then create thin ice quickly. Even though it states thin ice on most of these windmills it seems to still be a problem. BE SAFE and hope this helps. Ted

kay im new at owning a pond but have learned along the way i built a 1/4 acre trout pond and this is my first winter in central wisconsin. be very careful about supercooling your pond i have a fresh flo surface areator and was keeping a hole open. fishing was great untill christmas day and the bottom fell out of our air temp. i went 4weeks with no fish biting being my first winter i thought water had too stay open. i was getting nervous by then and had to find what was wrong so i called Peter at rushing waters in wi. He asked what my water temp was and at 13ft it was 32.6 degrees the fish were near death with no warm water to retreat to. I shut down areator and he told me too wait it out this is when my investment in an o2 meter paid off in 10 days my pond warmed up to 35 to 37 degrees the fishing came back and o2 stays in the 10 to 12ppm it is now complety iced over and i can sleep at night remember nature uses ice to create a insulation blanket over water so -20 degrees cant touch the fish . if i would not of caught my problem i would of killed the whole pond by mixing -20 air with entire body of water. Ive been dairy farming for 20 years and took my knowledge of watering cattle to my pond. a simple breathing hole can be kept open by putting a floating livestock water tank heater 1500 watt 110 volt in the pond. i also use this hole too feed my minnows . no mixing of air .

I am located near Kay in Pa. and I am concerned about the same thing as other northern pond owners, We have had so much snow and ice, you can't get near the pond to clean any of it off. We are now getting some thaw so this should help. Last year, we had much more snow and ice and I couldn't see any problems with my pond in the spring. But, this leads me to ask......how can you tell that you have had a winter kill of fish in your pond? Will there be floating bodies, carcusses on the bottom? I just need to know what to look for. Thanks for the advice.

Mark, We were just out in your neck of the woods doing pond evaluations for a local real estate company and we also checked on some customers.
oxygen levels were quite good for this time of year but now is a tough time to act it is a little late in the season. Let mother nature take it's course and plan for next year. Most of the ice is stratified in 2 foot depth and hard for sunlight to pass through if you have 8 foot depth i would not worry. If heavy tanin is present you might loose a few.
Scott

Mark - Visual evidence of dead fish from a winter kill usually depends on the time span between the die off and ice off. An early or mid-winter die off usually results in no or very few carcusses due to adequate time for decomposition which occurs but is pretty slow in cold water. A late winter die off is often apparent with evidence of dead fish.

A second good way to tell if there has been a significant loss of fish is to fish the pond in early spring. A third way is if you regularly feed fish and very few or none appear when the water gets 55F -60F then loss has probably occurred. A fourth, but later in the season, way is to observe spawning or nest building of the bass and bgills.

I sincerely appreciate both of your responses. I hear so much about winter fishkill, but I didn't know exactly what to look for. Very few, if any ponds in our area get any attention during the winter because of the difficulty in keeping them cleaned off and indifference. Yet, when I fish them in the summer, they are still very productive and obviously not very affected by winter ice over and snow cover. This was not the longest winter we have had, but it was snowy. Are ceratin pond depths or situations more subject to winter fishkill than others?

Hey Scott: Do you perform services in the Edinboro, Pa. area as part of your coverage territory or are you too far away?

The deeper the northern pond is the less chance of winterkill. Basically deeper (surface to volume ratio) ponds hold more volume and thus more oxygen. The main oxygen consumer under snow cover is large amounts dead leaves or dead aquatic plants both consume quite a bit of dissolved oxygen during winter darkness under ice. Shallow, organic laden ponds are most susceptable to winter kill.

Hmmm.... That's my type of pond unfortunately. As I mentioned to you in the past, Bill, my deepest point is 9', with the rest of it from 3 to 7'. Most of it's area ios around 6-7 feet deep.

Well, lets' hope I don't have too many problems until I can afford to dredge it out some day.

Mark,

It would be cheaper to use a diffuser in shallow water in winter and one or more in the center of the pond in summmer to aid in the decomposition of organic matter.

Cecil:

I have no power near my pond and have thoguht about a windmill model for some time now. Your thoughts on this?? I don't have a lot of trees around my pond and I have been cleaning out the scrub willow bushes. It sits in the middle of an unfertlized field. But, the pond is older and has the muck from years of organics.

Mark,

I'm not a big believer in windmills but I suppose they are better than nothing. In summer on hot calm days when you need them the most they are not running. I winter I suppose one could fit the bill as it doesn't have to run all the time.

Mark C.I agree with Cecil on the windmill. If you do install a windmill consider a high performance rubber membrane diffuser (Vertex coactive airstation)instead of the standard stone.This way when you do have some wind action you will move 4-5 times the water as the standard airstone normally supplied.If you can get power within a few thousand feet I would go for a an Vertex Air 1 instead.(sorry about the spam) but been there done that on the windmills. Ted

Ted: Do you sell what you are talking about? I mean, I will probably have to go with a windmill, if anything, because of the logistics of my property, and I know they don't pump a lot of CFMs, even in a hurricane. But, if there is something that will give more bang for the buck (wind) to help clean things up, I'm interested.