Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations New Pond Owner

I am the new owner of three ponds. Pond #1 is 3/4 acre, 6 to 8 feet deep and very shaded. Pond #2 is a bit over 1 acre, 10 to 15 feet deep, full sun, and has recently been "recored" so there are no fish in it. Pond #3 is brand new, 8 acres, 15 to 20 feet deep, no shade. What are the best combinations of fish for these three ponds that will allow for diversity and maximum recreational fun. Thanks for your help.

Marty,

Sounds like you've got a lot going for you with those three ponds. I'll try and help you out.

The 3/4 acre one has fish in it already I presume. If it hasn't been stocked with catfish recently, I would stock it with 100 channel catfish 8" (minimum) long and call it good. For the "re-cored" one acre lake, you could try and stock the traditional bass/bluegill/catfish combo, but with a new 8-acre lake, why bother? Instead stock it with about 200 4-6" (minimum) catfish, three pounds of fathead minnows, and about 500 hybrid bluegill if you enjoy panfishing. Put feeders on both smaller lakes filled with Purina game fish chow.

For the larger lake, stock 100 catfish, 250 bluegill, 250 redear, two pounds of fathead minnows, and 50 largemouth bass per acre. Stocking with the smallest (most economical) fingerlings will work fine in this lake. Fertilize annually for best results, but in your area be sure and check that alkalinity levels exceed 20 ppm.

Stock panfish, catfish, and minnows this fall, and follow up with the bass next spring.

If you want the best fishing possible, contact a lake manager in your area for advice. There is no substitute for experience.

I must disagree with fishman. And I am an expert, having read both of Pondboss's books and reading the magazine (that was a joke folks).



Now, here is what pondboss does recommend. First, it the two ponds that are empty, (supposedly, if they have been in existence very long, there are fish in them) stock with some bluegill and fathead minnows. Leave these forage fish alone in the lake for about a year. Let them multiply. THEN stock the predators of your choice, bass, catfish or both. The predators will grow much faster when stocked into an established forage base.

Do research on installing structure for the bass, might as well make it a great fishing lake if you got it. Also, add some redear to keep out the snails. Add them in the first year too.

Now for the established pond, seine it to see what lies therein. Fish it to see what you catch. You will have to stock it or not stock it depending on the results of your survey. If it has bass, and they are skinny, forage is needed. If it has brim, only, it is time for bass...

You might seine the other two ponds first in order to see if there is anything in them. Just to be sure.

Well Nick, there's more than one way to skin a cat (see thread on "how to skin a cat" if you don't believe me).

While Marty could dink around with the smaller lakes to get additional bass fishing opportunities, it is perfectly all right to manage them strictly for catfish. That, of course, is up to him but he did ask for opinions. (Hey, thanks to us, he's got choices! )

As for waiting a full year to stock predatory fish, that is definitely open to discussion. I certainly wouldn't consider catfish a significant predator, so I will have to respectfully disagree with the idea of waiting a full year to stock them. I would always stock them at the first opportunity. By late spring, the fathead minnows should have spawned, and there should be plenty of forage for any stocked bass. If you wait a full year, somebody might just "help" things along by throwing a half a dozen 14" bass in the pond. I don't need to tell you what they'll do to your expensive 3" long stocker bass when you finally get around to putting them in.

I agree with your ideas regarding the installation of additional habitat, as well as seining the ponds to determine what might be in them.

Anybody else want to weigh in on this to further clarify the situation for Marty?

Fishman, I think you're a little short on # of bluegills and redear. I have never seen recommendations of less than 750 per acre. Never seen anybody put 500 per acre when tossing the predators in at the same time.

Other thoughts. I'm not sure I wouldn't raise forage in a smaller pond just to put off the day when the bass become overstocked.

Hey Marty, You live next to the worlds number one bass factory, Lake Fork. Down the road, it would be hard for me not to put a couple of those whoppers in my ponds. Also, I just saw an advertisement from Tyler Fish farms advertising coppernose for $350 per thousand. I think there was a 10% redear mix in there.

I really appreciate all of the good information. Would you transfer a "big lunker" from Lake Fork to one of these ponds? What about diseases? Also, would anyone put largeouth bass in one pond and smallmouth bass in another pond? Thanks again, I really appreciate the help!

I would not take the chance - I also consider doing just that but Bob Lusk advised against it due to the risk of disease.

A couple of thoughts.
Tim is right about the danger of disease on introduced fish. However, due to certain character flaws, I would just have to put a couple of Lake Fork whoppers in. I just couldn't help myself. Of course, somebody else would probably have to catch them.

Fishman brings up an interesting point about going ahead and stocking bass when the forage is stocked. IN A PERFECT WORLD, nobody would try to help anyone else stock their pond. However, I have bass that are way too large (14 inch) for being stocked as crappie minnow size fingerlings last August 6. I also have green sunfish, warmouth, and yellow sunfish. None of which I stocked and all bigger than my largest bluegills. This has also happened to most of my friends and none of us believe in the bird stocking theory. As it now stands, I have no idea of the number of bass in my pond. If I had it to do over again I would probably go ahead and stock fingerling bass at the rate of 50 per acre and way too many fatheads. At least I would know something more about the bass population.

To clarify, I did not recommend stocking bass and their prey at the same time, although that is a common and effective practice. I believe that stocking predators at a later date is a good idea, but it does increase the pondowner's cost.

As for recommendations for stocking rates, I have never seen a recommendation for more than 500 prey/50 bass for unfertilized ponds unless it was published by a fish vendor. For example, you could check out the recommendations of the Texas Chapter of the American Fisheries Society here. For another source, check out "Management of Recreational Fish Ponds in Alabama" by Michael Masser. Both recommend the 500/50 rate, and both were written by management biologists that don't grow fish for a living.

If you are stocking a new lake, and if it is fertilized and a bloom established prior to stocking, then one can stock at the 1000/100 rate. Otherwise, you are spending more money on fish than you need to, and increasing the chance that corrective management will need to be applied in the near future.

If there is anyone out there actually managing small lakes for a living (Bob?) that can provide compelling evidence to refute what I have just written, by all means please weigh in on this subject.

I stocked on Jan. 31 this year in a new pond approximately 1 acre when full. I based my stock rates on info I got from http://www.sdafs.org/tcafs/manuals/pond/ponds.htm
I stocked at the following rate initially. 100 catfish, 100 bass, 400 bluegill and 200 hybrid bluegill. I also put in 10 lbs of fatheads. 2 1/2 months later I added another 50 cats and 50 bass and another 5 lbs of fatheads. All were 3-4" fingerlings. I feed every day. I have caught all species already (hook with barb removed on ultralight tackle). The cats and panfish have more than doubled in size and the bass have at least doubled. All species appear to be healthy and chunky for their length. I now have cats 10" long, hybrids almost as big as my hand the all bass caught or seen are at least 8". I don't believe I have any fatheads left and know that the bluegills have spawned as I have seen fingerling size coming to sniff the food. This is what has worked for me and I believe I will be taking hybrids out this fall and some cats by next spring if the growth rate continues.

The post from northeastern Texas sparked a flurry of practical advice on stocking. Keep it coming. This is a healthy exchange that supports the very core mission of Pond Boss as a public meeting place for fishing pond owners and managers.

Fisheries biologists on the Pond Boss Field Advisory Staff recommend stocking the forage species BEFORE the bass, so they can get established and spawn before introducing the predators. Here comes the judge!

The American Fisheries Society recommendations:

In an unfertilized new pond that will have minimal harvest pressure, stock 500 forage fingerlings per surface acre.

In a fertilized pond where the bluegill population will be subjected to harvest (a healthy tactic), biologists will go with up to 1,000/acre.

The Field Advisory Staff also bumps upward the stocking rate in a pond where the bluegill, redear and other forage are fed a high-protein fish pellet.

Mark McDonald
Editor, Pond Boss

All of the much appreciated help has cause me to have two additional questions. #1 What difference does fertilization make? Are you fertilizing the plants so the little feeder fish have something to eat? #2 Would it make ANY sense at all to have one pond with Crappie as the only predator, and the other two ponds with the common combination of Blue Gill, Catfish and Largemouth Bass. P. S. I was told that Smallmouth Bass will not make it in our Texas heat. Thanks again for all of the help, Marty

Marty, according to the publication on the website that I put in my last post, crappie are very aggressive and should not be put in a pond under 5 acres if bass will be introduced. I don't know why they couldn't be stocked as the primary predator in one of the ponds. I wanted to stock them in my 1 acre pond but did not because I wanted the bass. Hopefully, the hybrid bluegills are a decent substitute.

You can find my comments on how to fertilize in this thread. The reason fertilizing works is that it vastly increases the numbers of plankton available for very small fish to forage on. This stimulates the base of the food web and results in increased biomass (i.e. more/bigger bass)in your lake. In southerly latitudes, there really is no compelling reason not to fertilize, unless you have a vegetation problem. In that case, you would need to treat the vegetation, then begin a fertilization program.

Be careful not to overfeed if you are also fertilizing. Waste feed, in conjunction with a plankton die-off, could cause problems with low dissolved oxygen in your lakes.

As for the crappie, I would avoid them completely. Go with a proven combination of species, and you will be well on your way to good fishing.