Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Israeli Carp as super algae eaters

I never see Israeli Carp mentioned for eating algae. I use them in my pond along with KOI and I don't have algae problems. I have watched them eat algae and they are fish hogs eating this stuff while KOI are dainty algae eaters. They are an ugly looking fish with very few scales.

John

Never heard of Isreali carp. Im sure that we all are interested in algae eaters. I have some questions / concerns though.

Do they muddy the water?
Do they multiply a lot?
Do they eat bass eggs?

Anybody know about these fish?

Isn't Israeli carp is just another name for grass carp?

http://hometown.aol.com/jmonroe85

The Israeli isn't the same as the White Amur grass carp. This is one in the picture and you can see they have very few scales. I have watched them suck down large amounts of algae. In my 3/4 acre mud bottom pond I use 15 Isreali carp, 20 KOI and Channel catfish for my Fitamentous algae (rug mat algae)to control my algae. This is working well for me but it takes time for these fish to get big enough to eat a lot of algae. They do not muddy my pond. You have to get the balance of having enough fish to do the job and not too many to muddy your pond. These fish have been in my pond for about 8 years now and I have never had a new young Israeli or KOI fry to grow to any size I can see. What I put in 8 years ago I still have. They are controlled by my bass. MY pond reproduces new young bass and I have never see them eaten by the Isreali's so I have to assume if they eat bass eggs the don't stop bass from producing young.

I only know of one place to get these and you can read it in my web page I will add here. The page also gives a description of how I operate my pond with out chemicals.

I will add another picture of the edge of my pond taken about a week ago showing no algae. The weather has been very hot for some while now and most of the ponds around here with the dye in it for weed and moss control are failing. Haven't talked to anyone using the copper sulfates this year.

John

JOhn can you post another picture of the israeli carp for me thanks..
or maybe someone can someone post a picture of what it was he posted ( but the link doesn't work now)

I think when you see a picture of an Israeli carp it will look the same as a mirror carp - common carp variety. Zetts gives some of his fish unique names to have a special fish no one else sells.

Thank you Bill I suspected that he was talking about mirror or leather carp.. I also suspected that they might be a little better to eat.

so in my state it is illegal to raise tilapia in aquaponics without the local yocals or revenuers coming to get their share first .. so that aint happening !! even if I have to eat carp .

but if I can't grow any kind of native for aquaponics like you can grow tilapia or carp in a closed system like they have been grown for ages and ages that actually grow in that kind of system or closed pond .....and legally.
I can only grow common carp here legally and if I can NOT get a native fish so far they do not grow and some don't reproduce if they do grow .

so if I can't get buffalo fish, white sucker, or Golden shiners to work somehow either , these also are said to not reproduce in a pond or closed system ,( unless maybe if I use rain water or RO which I will try next ) then legally I am stuck with some kind of carp or koi and we want a food fish..

of the food fish carp only Israeli carp/ mirror/ leather carp is even sort of mentioned as an almost eatable carp . besides the most invasive who are stated as being the only two "good" to eat if treated/ cleaned correctly.

there must be a reason those large scale variety are a bit 'BETTER' ( not good but just better) to eat someway than regular carp or koi ..

now all I have to do is to find out why they might be a little bit better to eat.
Maybe that gene for big scales or missing scales may do something internally to the meat or how they eat or how they taste maybe.

so thanks that bit of info helped me a lot thank you !

Are catfish out of the question?

well I don't like cats fish that much either.. and truth is I got some albino channel and they died. when they died they caused a cascade of sickly tilapia , I lost almost all of of tilapia when they did die..
way less bluegills died. maybe only 10 /100 bluegills 90/100 tilapia from three totes 300 totes and three 200 totes.. ... but all ten albino died in groups with different % of fish .


so I don't know why or if it was just a fluke they died or if they just don't like my place much. but for now they are kind of expensive to watch float and to have them kill my other fish if they don't like it for some reason... I am thinking of a getting a few more once I get a really big koi/carp big pond going. but for now I only have 3- 300 3 -200 totes they didn't like the recirculating system in the green house. maybe it was too warm/hot for them. either way I can't get them now because all I haven't is the totes and it is warm in there . but yes I have tried them and no I wasn't thrilled with that either.

Here's what I found out about Tilapia in your state. If this is correct, then it looks like no fees are collected.

Tilapia are a lot more hardy than the other species that you are looking at. If tilapia died, then there might be something that needs to be changed or monitored more closely in the system. The other species might kick the bucket sooner than the Tilapia.

How to raise Tilipia in missouri In steps.
1. you must write to the Department of Conservation P.O Box 180 Jefferson City Mo 65102 phone # 573-751-4115 Atnn DIRECTOR. You must ask for written permisson to raise Tilipia T. Hornorum, and T. Mossambica and explain how you will raise them.
Closed loop system is the only permitted way.
2. After written request has been submitted An Agent will contact you and request to see your system. Once they inspect your system and if they approve they will send you the approval letter.
More rules to be aware of:
-Must be inside home building or green house. Live organisms and eggs, parasites and diseases not possible to escape.
-Discharge of water is not permitted for gardens houseplants and or lawns. Must be discharged in a septic system.
-System may be aquaponic or recirculating system with no discharge of water.
-Please note city sewer is permitted to use for Water Changes.
Please note that no PERMIT is required But written permission is.......

Can KOI be transported from one pond to another? About a 6 hour drive? Suggested way to do this for a non professional?

Sure, but the real answer is "It depends". How big are the fish, and what state?

Often lily garden pond suppliers have koi. John mentioned above that his pond was not muddy. I have seen John's pond and 'muddy' is relative and a matter of opinion! John's pond also was heavily infested with spadderdock, which makes if pretty hard for the 'carps' to root up and roil the bottom sediments, thus the high number needed in his pond to reduce algae. If money is an issue for using Israeli or Koi for filamentous algae control via the murky water route, then seriously consider using just the ol' common carp that inhabit about every warm water stream and river in the eastern half USA. Get your fishing friends as a bounty for each one to catch you some river carp and haul them home. The carp regardless of the variety will do basically the same job of rooting roiling the sediments to eventually produce murky water with low visibility thus the fancy color of the fish then has little value.