Pond Boss Magazine
https://www.pondboss.com/images/userfiles/image/20130301193901_6_150by50orangewhyshouldsubscribejpeg.jpg
Advertisment
Newest Members
Shotgun01, Dan H, Stipker, LunkerHunt23, Jeanjules
18,451 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums36
Topics40,899
Posts557,082
Members18,451
Most Online3,612
Jan 10th, 2023
Top Posters
esshup 28,414
ewest 21,474
Cecil Baird1 20,043
Bill Cody 15,110
Who's Online Now
9 members (Sunil, Jared015, Freg, Justin W, LeighAnn, Donatello, Theo Gallus, homewardbound, DenaTroyer), 786 guests, and 227 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#507861 06/20/19 07:44 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 71
D
OP Offline
D
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 71
I went fishing tonight with a 3" BG, hoping to target our last adult LMB (which is extremely hook-shy).

For those who aren't familiar, our pond has 1 remaining LMB at about 11-12", another LMB at about 5.5", but otherwise just BG and some YP that we stocked a month ago at 6-8". We'd ideally like to get the remaining LMB out, and experiment with a predominantly YP/BG pond.

I've seen noted many times on these forums that YP can't eat a BG bigger than about 2", so I thought I was safe using a 3" BG to target only the LMB, especially given that our YP are smaller adults.

Well, on the third cast, something smashed the 3" BG quite hard, and put up a bit of a fight, so I was really pumped up to finally see our 11-12" LMB come out of the water, and......

it was a quite fat YP that I estimated at about 8.5" (using my hand as a measuring stick).

I don't dispute that fusiform, soft-rayed forage such as minnows or shiners are much better YP forage and that if a person is shooting for trophy YP, that would be optimal, but now this made me believe that maybe BG as YP forage isn't such a horrible idea for us specifically, given our small pond with almost no cover and that we're aiming for higher numbers of medium-sized panfish for harvest (not trophies of either YP or BG).

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 71
D
OP Offline
D
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 71
I should add that I'm still not convinced that our high numbers of adult YP relative to adult BG will be enough to properly manage the BG population and prevent stunting. I am just surprised that the YP will be able to continue to feed on the BG on up to a much larger size than I originally thought, so this makes me think that with our smaller pond (meaning that I can manually remove BG and have more of an impact) with almost no cover and no alternative forage, there's a small chance that the BG may be able to be managed without LMB.

Last edited by Drew Snyder; 06/20/19 08:03 PM. Reason: I'm a stooge.
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 2,213
Likes: 514
S
Offline
S
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 2,213
Likes: 514
Drew, I think all species to some extent are opportunistic in nature. An injured fish with something out of the ordinary presents a target in itself. BG are very prolific, as are YP from what I understand-I'm learning just how many different species they will eat, but presented in the right frame, there will always be surprises.
You have a couple of other options for predators other than LMB that can be controlled to some extent but of the 2 choices I have in Mind (WAE-HSB) both have drawbacks. Walleye will prefer the YP because they inhabit the same areas. HSB are more likely to run across BG. Both are available tools and maybe a few of each could work out.

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 13,939
Likes: 268
Moderator
Lunker
Online Confused
Moderator
Lunker
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 13,939
Likes: 268
I think it was Bill Cody who stated that YP predate a lot on sunfish (BG) in the cold water months.


"Live like you'll die tomorrow, but manage your grass like you'll live forever."
-S. M. Stirling
[Linked Image from i.pinimg.com]
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 71
D
OP Offline
D
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 71
Agreed Kenny and Theo. I realize I buried my main takeaway in the middle of 47 pages of inane babble.

I think it's well-known and accepted that YP will eat YoY BG. My surprise is that apparently YP are able to eat much larger BG than what is often noted here.

I'll try to find the exact threads for reference, but I had in my mind that in our resident experts' experience, YP (even large adults) won't/can't eat a BG larger than 1.5-2". Maybe I'm misquoting or misunderstanding, but I could have sworn I've seen such figures referenced multiple times. So using a reasonably large 12" YP as an example, this is saying that it can't eat a BG larger than 1/6 of its body length. What I just saw shows that a roughly 8.5" YP (a small adult) is at least able to eat a BG up to 3" long, i.e., the YP ate a BG of about 1/3 its length. This still doesn't prove that that actually happens often in nature, just that it's possible.

Last edited by Drew Snyder; 06/21/19 09:13 AM. Reason: Added ratios for clarity.
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 71
D
OP Offline
D
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 71
I should note that I don't believe we can extrapolate at all beyond this example I saw last night. Actually now reading back, I think using those length of YP to length of BG ratios was misleading. I'm definitely no expert, so anyone feel free to correct me here, but I don't think a YP's mouth would keep growing much wider than what I saw on this 8.5" specimen. Also, IME YoY BG become more and more deep-bodied as they grow past 3", so a 4" BG is a good bit deeper-bodied than a 3" BG, I think.

Main point being, I don't want anyone to construe my example as meaning a 15" perch could eat a 5" BG (1/3rd its length). I don't think we can extrapolate. We have 1 data point, that a 8.5" YP can eat a 3" BG, and that's it.

Last edited by Drew Snyder; 06/21/19 09:28 AM. Reason: Clarifying that me using those ratios was misleading.
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 1,125
Likes: 273
A
Offline
A
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 1,125
Likes: 273
I caught a 5" bluegill on a Pop-R last Saturday. I don't know what that fish thought he was going to do with it, because he sure wasn't going to be able to swallow it.

Maybe he was just mad. lol

Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 2,213
Likes: 514
S
Offline
S
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 2,213
Likes: 514
I think we see things in fishing that may not happen in the natural environment because fish don't have "hooks".. I think fish will try and-dare I say attack-swat at many "Too large" meals. Heck, GSF will nip yer shorts, fingers ect.. It's the "what's the dog gonna do with the car we he catches it" deal.
Like Augie, I've had 7-8" LMB smack 6-8" topwater baits fishing for HSB.

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,474
Likes: 264
E
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
E
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,474
Likes: 264
Yes there are studies that show significant predation on small BG (3 in <) in cooler/cold water.
















Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 491
Likes: 13
M
Offline
M
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 491
Likes: 13
YP will hit anything. 5" stick baits for example. An 8.5" YP isn't afraid of anything you have in your pond.

In my pond, if it moves, something will eat it lol


Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP

Link Copied to Clipboard
Today's Birthdays
Bob Lusk, GaryK, GrizzFan, PhotographerDave
Recent Posts
Happy Birthday Bob Lusk!!
by Sunil - 03/28/24 12:39 PM
New 2 acre pond stocking plan
by Sunil - 03/28/24 12:39 PM
1 year after stocking question
by esshup - 03/28/24 11:01 AM
Paper-shell crayfish and Japanese snails
by esshup - 03/28/24 10:39 AM
Brooder Shiners and Fry, What to do??
by Freg - 03/28/24 09:42 AM
Relative weight charts in Excel ? Calculations?
by esshup - 03/28/24 08:36 AM
Dewatering bags seeded to form berms?
by Justin W - 03/28/24 08:19 AM
Reducing fish biomass
by FishinRod - 03/28/24 08:18 AM
Questions and Feedback on SMB
by Donatello - 03/27/24 03:10 PM
2024 North Texas Optimal BG food Group Buy
by Dave Davidson1 - 03/27/24 08:15 AM
Freeze Danger? - Electric Diaphragm Pump
by esshup - 03/26/24 09:47 PM
Newly Uploaded Images
Eagles Over The Pond Yesterday
Eagles Over The Pond Yesterday
by Tbar, December 10
Deer at Theo's 2023
Deer at Theo's 2023
by Theo Gallus, November 13
Minnow identification
Minnow identification
by Mike Troyer, October 6
Sharing the Food
Sharing the Food
by FishinRod, September 9
Nice BGxRES
Nice BGxRES
by Theo Gallus, July 28
Snake Identification
Snake Identification
by Rangersedge, July 12

� 2014 POND BOSS INC. all rights reserved USA and Worldwide

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5