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Tony,

This is my last thoughts on this.

One, it appears you are judging with emotion, not facts. To what end?

Two, who wronged you? And why do you care?

Third, saying something is not a threat does not make it so.

Fourth, if you want to be banned, walk away. It is obvious to everyone you are displeased with a lot of us, yet most of us don't know why.

Fifth, saying you will not let this go is illogical, and has no answer. Best of luck with this one, its yours.

Finally, anonymous surveys rarely yield scientific results. If you want true results, you need to take proper care to setup your survey. And taking a survey about how much you would like to pay for any good or service is pointless. I always want to pay less, everybody does.

Best of luck with your choices, I hope you find peace.


Brian

The one thing is the one thing
A dry fly catches no fish
Try not to be THAT 10%
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Spark, thanks for letting us know how we should handle things.


Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."

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And thank you Sunil, for unabashedly demonstrating the qualities that define our true characters when faced with a challenging situation.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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Originally Posted By: highflyer
Tony,

This is my last thoughts on this.

One, it appears you are judging with emotion, not facts. To what end?

Two, who wronged you? And why do you care?

Third, saying something is not a threat does not make it so.

Fourth, if you want to be banned, walk away. It is obvious to everyone you are displeased with a lot of us, yet most of us don't know why.

Fifth, saying you will not let this go is illogical, and has no answer. Best of luck with this one, its yours.

Finally, anonymous surveys rarely yield scientific results. If you want true results, you need to take proper care to setup your survey. And taking a survey about how much you would like to pay for any good or service is pointless. I always want to pay less, everybody does.

Best of luck with your choices, I hope you find peace.


Thanks Brian, I know you have tried to understand my reasoning throughout this entire process, and you’ve done so logically and compassionately. I appreciate that. Whatever happens, I have no reservations at continuing to see you as a friend also.

Since I’ve gone this far, I have little more to lose, so I will delve briefly into politics... a big problem in this country is that few are ever held accountable for their wrongdoings. And the higher up the chain you go, the more we would probably all agree this is true. I’m going to have my feet held to the fire publicly for my role in this thread, and I have it coming. But will the mods face any repercussions?

Eric posted that it was fine to revisit old threads, then admonishes that it’s better to let sleeping dogs lie. I responded that I found it humorous we could switch gears so fast, and that not revisiting old threads with new info/questions would lead to stagnation. He removed my post, citing no personal attacks... there’s a big difference in a personal attack, and being called out because you made a mistake. When that happened, I no longer saw PB, I saw a symptom of what’s wrong with our society. There is a double standard. Two sets of rules. A class division. Is an expensive PB conference another head on the same hydra? I don’t think so, but I do understand how some might?

Things aren’t the same for pond owners everywhere. Sunil’s assertion that having a pond must mean you have more money than regular folks, just shows how far removed from a huge segment of pond owners he really is. Saying crap like that just sets the wedge down a little deeper. And this from a mod no less. Will he face repercussions for his statements and behavior during all this? Will Eric? Is there one standard after all?

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Heard about this and finally drug out an IPAD while sitting in a deer blind.

Lusk and Otto own this site. It’s free to us but not to them. They lose money here.

They sponsor the conferences, To the best of my knowledge, none have ever been profitable.

Publicity? I don’t think they need it.

I signed up for the conference but picked up a lung infection that kept me home.

So where am I going with this? When I am given a free ride, I don’t complain about it or criticize the driver for any discomfort that I might feel. If I don’t like the way he is driving or the seats are uncomfortable, I would ask him to stop and let me out.

Last edited by Dave Davidson1; 12/02/17 01:20 PM.

It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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Always appreciate your input Dave. I wish circumstances would’ve allowed me the chance to shake your hand. I agree that getting out of the car would certainly end the discomfort, but I don’t think it would answer the question of whether or not the company driver had broken any rules of the road.

Good luck with the hunt, mind your elevation and windage my friend.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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Merrian-Websters definition of 'Affluence:' affluence: abundance of property : wealth; an abundant flow or supply : profusion

See 'property' in there????!!! (maybe take off the blinders...)

I said land ownership; I never said 'money' or 'wealth,' but you are par for the course when one wants to only hammer in their own view, relentlessly (as has been done countless times on the forum by the same person). Remember your long dissertations on hunting?? That really pleased a lot of folks here; but your opinions on why you don't hunt were soooo important to everyone here, especially those who LOVE to hunt. Actually, scratch that....your opinions on the same were important to you; others...not so much.

Funny how you bring up politics. One of the major problems from '08 to '16 was the sad form of governing to the extreme minority (eg. Transgender people-men in women's bathrooms) while damning the majority. A failed philosophy for sure.

When you read highflyer's or Dave Davidson's posts above, you seem to really appreciate the feedback. I get a different message from each of their words. Again, it seems like you're reading those posts with blinders on, seeing only what you think validates your position.

Finally, I can help rest one issue for you. I'm not getting admonished for anything I've written here, I assure you. My line of replies and my choice of prose on this thread started very dry and ratcheted up from there to my current tone. And now I'm fully engaged. I will never sit back idly and watch someone take a big dump on something I love, and something that has provided so deeply for myself and others for close to (15) years.


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Thanks for all the input, folks.
Personally, I like edgy thoughts. It creates conversation. Toss in some passion, and here we go.
I'll forego the passion and stick with facts.
Since the gist of this thread is about Pond Boss conferences, I'll start with that. Pond Boss I's mission was to begin to unite an industry. Our goal was to take an undefined, fledgling industry, bring people together and start relationships. We wanted pond pros to personally meet the vendors that many of them did business with, and to meet those they were yet to meet. We wanted vendors to get to know the niches of this industry, and the people that make things happen. We wanted to put landowners in front of experts, and for those landowners to become better stewards of their land and water. We had 36 speakers, about 25 vendors and just under 300 attendees. Academia was represented, as was some agency people, and the private sector. Part of our mission was to build bridges among these three "competitive" sectors, in that attempt to start unifying the industry. Pond Boss lost just over $10,000 on that first attempt. What we DIDN'T expect was the coming together of the Pond Boss family. Didn't think about the camaraderie, but that was, by far, the biggest take home point.
Pond Boss II had a similar goal, but to lose less money as we did our part to unify the industry. We had the most attendance, to this day, of just more than 300 people.
Pond Boss III, IV, and V were held at Big Cedar, with more of a focus to share knowledge and have plenty of social time. Those of you who attended any of those know just how cool that venue is and how much free time there was. My favorite part was the Buzzard Bar, where ideas flowed faster than the adult beverages and a local skunk family chased patrons and hand outs.
We lost money.
Pond Boss VI, in Rockwall, was our next attempt. We broke even on that one. But, we saw the Pond Boss family in full force, doing what they do, gathering knowledge, spending time together, and building valuable relationships everyone can use today.
Pond Boss VII was put together with great effort. It's a huge undertaking with a significant financial commitment. For the record, it costs more than $100,000 to put on an event like that. Our decision has been to put together and hold a quality event. We did that. As far as cash flow, we didn't "lose" money this time...until we count the significant man hours put into it. That's how we lost money on this one.
Here's the bottom line about Pond Boss conferences. We are a business. We do attempt to make money. At the same time, we understand the value of the Pond Boss family, which includes this forum.
At this time, I personally have no desire to have another one. Too much effort and time to do it. A good part of that reasoning is outlined in this thread. People don't want to pay that much. I get that. I don't want to put on an event that isn't classy and full of information. I thought that changing up the program, bringing in lots of new ideas and new speakers and new vendors would be a draw, but it wasn't. Today's times suggest that anyone, at any time, can find out anything the want to know with a quick trip to the University of Google. Maybe so, maybe no. Maybe so, maybe know. But, with all the keyboard brilliance out there, in my heart, I know that we need these relationships to truly find out the facts, logic, and sense. I hear what Tony is saying about that. He knows what he knows and is happy with it. As far as the suggestion there is no paradigm shift, that's completely untrue. I'm immersed in it, and see it. Hobbyists have little reason to seek it.
As far as Pond Boss being a business, that's true and won't change. The conference lose money, and this forum loses money. We've had many vendor friends offer these thoughts, "Bob, we won't buy a banner ad because everyone there is a 'do-it-yourselfer." We haven't cracked the nut to make the forum profitable. But, the value of the forum, to our business, is the fair exchange of ideas, with the hope that forum members will help convince people to subscribe to the magazine. The magazine fuels the business. We don't sell subscriptions, all this fun stops and someone else gets to go pay to start a forum. As big as this forum is, the 24 hour, 365 day per year cost of hosting is pretty dang high. These fun and games cost money.
Further for the record, Pond Boss, Inc., still believes our mission is to help unify an industry, and do our best to do that as we work hard to produce a quality work with the magazine, with the biggest mission to help as many people as we can to be the best stewards of their land and water as we can. That's another reason for this forum. As far as what we do caters only to affluent people, I want to think about that. I did bristle when I read that, but in our pursuit of fairness, it deserves thought. For all of us who aren't affluent, here's how that really works. Affluent people don't tend to go to our conferences. Why should they? They can afford to hire any or all of the experts and vendors which grace pages of the magazine? Do they subscribe? Yes, they do. They understand the value of what fuels Pond Boss, and they want to see it continue. I laugh out loud when someone complains about the cost of a subscription. My perspective is this...$35 is less than most people spend on a Friday date night meal somewhere. To further influence that, I have had many, many people tell me things they've learned from the magazine, or the conferences saved them untold dollars and angst from mistakes the DIDN'T make. What's that worth?
Finally, the moderators I chose were selected for specific reasons. If you get moderated, and don't like it...too bad.
If you think you've been treated unfairly, take it to a pm and address it. If you still don't like it, bring it to me. I have supported members in the past and it caused us to lose a moderator years ago. I support our moderators as they are they guys on the ground, doing their parts to help guide this forum in the way I've directed it. Mike Otto and I own this thing and we'll continue to do what we think we need to do to keep it moving in a healthy way.
With these thoughts in mind, I want everyone participating or reading this thread to know that I'm mulling over these thoughts. Sometimes it takes me a few days to truly absorb it all.
If any of you take issue with the forum, its rules, this thread, or any other, feel free to stop participating. We'll miss you, just like some of the others who stopped. Life's too short to let something like this forum affect you. If I or the moderators think you need to be banned, we'll do it...just like the handful of others who've been banned.
Here's the bottom line. Support Pond Boss in ways you can. Don't degrade Pond Boss on this forum. Build the family here or go away. I want people's children to be able to read any given thread here and grow and learn from it. I want new people to feel welcome and invited. If you can't do that, go find another place. Our mission is to continue to help people become better stewards of their land and water, as simple as that. We are also a business which intends to make money to fuel all these fun vehicles the entire world has the opportunity to benefit.


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He can teach to catch fish...
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Bob, thank you for your above post. To me, it seems to come from a quiet understanding of fairness, of strength, of caring about quality of life.

Thanks once again for considering the points raised in this thread, for communicating so clearly your position relative to our stewardship opportunities, and for all the work you've done.

Roger

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Oh crap, Sunil is now fully engaged....

Sunil, I do admire the tenacity, arrogance, smugness, confidence, and self- righteousness that you display. I’m certain those same attributes served the likes of Nero, Napoleon, and General Custer, quite well. Right up until the day they didn’t

You need to read through the hunting thread again. I am a hunter myself, but I questioned the wisdom of removing the best genetics from a population, solely for the sake of pride or accomplishment. I guess I’m not the only one who sees only what he wishes,eh?

And just to further the record, I harbored no illusion about how this thing would shake out in the end. I figure that necessity trumps justice often enough to place my position as one precarious. Bob saying that things do not always favor a mod gives me a glimmer of hope, and I will pm him in a few hours time. Bob also mentioned that he wants the forum to be comfortable enough for children to read. I agree. It’s important for future adults to see how they should conduct themselves when inevitable disagreements arise.

Finally, you are correct in that ours is a majority rule based society, and I am in total agreement with this philosophy. I realize that it will not matter to you, but nonetheless you should know that I have received a handful of pm’s from other members offering support for my position. While still definitively a minority, it is still greater than one.... as much as you would like to make this about me alone, it isn’t.

Bob, I am taking your offer of personal communication to be a sincere one. Like you, I would like to mull it over for a spell. My hope is to communicate privately in a few hours. Until then, I am done responding to this thread.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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Hope everybody is!!!!


Do nature a favor, spay/neuter your pets and any weird friends or relatives.
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Originally Posted By: Bob-O
Hope everybody is!!!!


Bob-O I am not fully engaged but my new girlfriend
has me at least thinking about it down the road.


Fishing has never been about the fish....

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Zep congrats on your almost engaged

Last edited by Pat Williamson; 12/02/17 05:33 PM.
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Spark, when you comm with Lusk, consider your words below:

"I am a hunter myself, but I questioned the wisdom of removing the best genetics from a population, solely for the sake of pride or accomplishment."

You questioned the 'wisdom' of a huge amount of people here. You went further with the 'solely for the sake of pride or accomplishment." You co-opted any thought process or reasoning they might have had besides 'pride or accomplishment.' That's insulting and condescending. It also makes pride or accomplishment seem like a negative stimulus.

And when a discussion starts, you pound your position, past the point of 'conversational' banter. For context, we know that you have wit when you want.

The example above is related to peace and well-being on the forum. The rest of this thread is about NOT doing harm to the Pond Boss organization by making positions that don't support the Pond Boss organization seem like they are in any way acceptable.


Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."

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ARROGANT? SMUG? SELF-RIGHTEOUS? Sprkie, I don't know if those lofty traits of character apply to Sunil but you've certainly described me and yourself very well.

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Okay. I said I wouldn’t reply any further, but that made me laugh Dudley.. Felt good, thanks. grin


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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LOL Dudley! I think all of us share a little of those traits! smile

I do find this thread disheartening. IMO most of this could have been avoided with a little consideration and keeping all posts constructive. I see that as a "constructive" suggestion to both sides. FWIW One of the first rules I learned as a young engineer was to never walk into the boss's office and say, "We have a big problem." The correct approach..."We have a big problem and here is how we can fix it."

For some reason this reminds me of that old movie "Road House" where Patrick S. tells his bouncers, "Just be nice."

To be honest, I got totally lost on how transgenders and toilets fit into the PB conference discussion. Is that something Bob has in the works as a possible new attraction? grin

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Lusk - good post for seeing both sides and posting a quality response.


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Just so everyone knows, donations to the Pond Boss Forum range from $5.00 - $300.00+. All get credit in the Hall of Fame, and any request to donate anonymously is honored.

One person donated $1 once. I think it was all they could spare at the time, with a baby on the way. The person was very active on the forum.

Support this place.

In the latest issue, Lusk spends a short paragraph on the attendance numbers for the last PB Con.

In the next paragraph, he talks about what Pond Boss needs.

If you read the magazine, you know the answer.


Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."

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OK, 'Subscriptions' was the answer for those of you in this newly revealed group who don't subscribe to the magazine.

Also, average donations are from $20.00 - $50.00 if you were wondering.


Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."

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I want to thank everyone who kept me busy responding to texts and pm's yesterday afternoon and evening. If I didn't have a chance to respond personally, I'm sorry. Please know that I appreciate, and am humbled by, all your kind words.

Last night, Bob, in his usual kind, thoughtful, and gracious manner, invited me to communicate my thoughts directly with him. I did so, and after heeding the advice given to me by a good friend here whom I've never met, I slept on it. Now, I want to share a few thoughts with everyone as a group.

Some of you know, some may not, that I was self employed for a number of years. It was a small operation, with a heavy emphasis on small....a one man operation. And I made a decent living at it, paying the bills, supporting my family, running it my way, day-to-day.

And while I was generally satisfied, there was a part of me that wished for the type of operation that I read about in the trade mags...a fancy storefront, a showroom filled with shiny, new equipment, multiple personnel on the payroll, manufacturing reps taking me to lunch, a lounge for prospective buyers to wait comfortably in while my staff ran their credit... you know, the big leagues.

But there wasn't any of that. There was me. Bookkeeper, mechanic,office assistant, plumber, delivery guy, setup guy, answering all the phone calls, waiting on customers, loading and unloading equipment, looking up parts, you get the idea. Doing whatever, however, whenever, to keep the thing flying.

During my years spent here on the forum and my involvement with PB, I have heard many times of the need to support the forum, financially wise. It was said that the forum and the conferences, lost money. Now that in itself is bad enough, but what troubled me more was the fact that we kept doing it. My experience with my own business taught me that if the patient was hemorrhaging that badly, the answer wouldn't be found in a continuous blood transfusion...long term survival meant plugging the leak. Making a change in my approach to the problem.

And that's what I didn't see happening here. I thought the PB organization was in trouble, financial wise, and yet nothing was changing. I struggled with the idea of continuing the transfusion without first sewing the leak shut. It seemed like a wasted effort.

And then I read Bob's post from last night, and I immediately felt better. He recognizes the need for some type of change. Maybe the new course isn't fully charted yet, but just knowing that it's under consideration puts me at ease. Does this mean that I'm ready to re-subscribe? No. i can't stand walking by something that I've paid for, but haven't shot, listened too, read, played with, whatever. That waste of resources on all sides infuriates me. And let's be honest...my view of the pond/fish world is extremely narrow....if it doesn't have lepomis in the title, I'm just not that interested. if PB wants to go monthly with a mag devoted to bluegills, complete with centerfold, I'm all in. Doesn't sound like a good business model to me, however.

But I am totally up for continuing to pay for someone else's subscription, who for whatever reason does not or cannot take the mag. Guess there's no reason to remain anonymous now.

Supporting the forum, financially? I'm still turning over my ideas concerning "usage" and "participation". I will say that I am more open to the idea now, than I was this time yesterday.

As far as my issues with a couple other members, I think highflyer said it best when he said this one is totally on me. I am content to leave things in Bob's hands and face the music for my role in this thing. My opinion in this regard has not changed, and while I could've done a better job at reigning myself in, the substance remains the same. How, or even if we move past this is yet to be decided.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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Sparky, I doubt that there will be repercussions for your philosophy or argumentative style. For want of a better analogy, much like a malfunctioning engine light on Highflyer's instrument panel, you keep most of us performing at a somewhat higher level. With politics, religion and sexuality banned, threads like this one add color to the forum as well as humor to the life of the fully engaged Sunil. Can you imagine a milquetoast forum revolving around Esshup's endless explanations?

I certainly agree that Bob is a great guy although not very busy. To remedy that, I suggest the we all pack up our campers with kids, friends, inlaws and pets to all spend the summer at his place to bask in his and the Princess's warmth and hospitality.

At the risk of being grouped with the greats of poetry while hoping that it discourages you from taking yourself too seriously, I will share one of my better efforts with you:

A busy mechanic named Sparky,
Wrote posts that are full of malarkey.
While his diction is good,
He is best understood,
By those who are fluent in Snarky.

Hope this helps you out of that purple funk.

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Dudley, Please forgive me for not knowing just what occupation you answer(answered?) too each morning, but may I suggest that if it differs in any fashion from “poet”, that you stay with it a tad longer? grin laugh smile. Best effort? Hoo boy.

On the other hand, I am totally in for adding FES to the list of acronyms.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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I guess I am a addict for keeping on reading this thread. Kind of like slowing down to look at a car wreck but enough is enough guys. Can we all play nice? My goodness!!


Dear Alcohol, We had a deal where you would make me funnier, smarter, and a better dancer... I saw the video... We need to talk.
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Flame, I’m laughing, not being serious. That’s what the grinning, smiling, laughing characters were intended to convey. I have no problem with Dudley’s post, or with laughing at myself.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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