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OP
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So I think I know what the general consensus may be here, but I figured I would go ahead and ask.
I am planning to add some fish to my 5 acre shared lake right around Fathers Day this year. I have a few others on the lake willing to chip in to lower per person cost or get some extra fish.
The lake has quite a lot of short but stocky LMB (12"+ tend to look skinny), a few skinny black and white crappie, a few channel cats, and unknown quantity and quality bluegill.
Regarding the bluegill: I say unknown quality and quantity for a specific reason. When we fist moved here four years ago, bluegill were abundant, mean, and very nice size. Two years ago while we were out of town for a month, neighbors said that the lake apparently "turned over" and 3-400 bluegill were found floating. While I did not witness it, I can say that I don't think they have really recovered as I have not caught them as frequently as I used to. Of course, due to our three year old son, i don't fish as much as I once did either.
Since then we have put in an aeration system, I have added quite a bit of cover to the lake, and am trying to stock FHM from time to time at 1000/ surface acre.
I eventually would like to have an awesome bluegill lake with some nice crappie and a few high quality bass. I want to swing the pendulum from a lot of short bass to having more sizable bass and high quality and abundant bluegill.
So all that in mind, what would you be inclined to stock this year?
Sorry for the novella, but figured all the info was going to be important.
Thanks in advance for any advice.
Ryan
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Joined: Jul 2011
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Joined: Jul 2011
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I would stock hooks, and lots of them.
Remove the problem first, or all you will be adding is expensive snacks.
Brian
The one thing is the one thing
A dry fly catches no fish
Try not to be THAT 10%
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Joined: May 2012
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Joined: May 2012
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So I think I know what the general consensus may be here, but I figured I would go ahead and ask.
I am planning to add some fish to my 5 acre shared lake right around Fathers Day this year. I have a few others on the lake willing to chip in to lower per person cost or get some extra fish.
The lake has quite a lot of short but stocky LMB (12"+ tend to look skinny), a few skinny black and white crappie, a few channel cats, and unknown quantity and quality bluegill.
Regarding the bluegill: I say unknown quality and quantity for a specific reason. When we fist moved here four years ago, bluegill were abundant, mean, and very nice size. Two years ago while we were out of town for a month, neighbors said that the lake apparently "turned over" and 3-400 bluegill were found floating. While I did not witness it, I can say that I don't think they have really recovered as I have not caught them as frequently as I used to. Of course, due to our three year old son, i don't fish as much as I once did either.
Since then we have put in an aeration system, I have added quite a bit of cover to the lake, and am trying to stock FHM from time to time at 1000/ surface acre.
I eventually would like to have an awesome bluegill lake with some nice crappie and a few high quality bass. I want to swing the pendulum from a lot of short bass to having more sizable bass and high quality and abundant bluegill.
So all that in mind, what would you be inclined to stock this year?
Sorry for the novella, but figured all the info was going to be important.
Thanks in advance for any advice.
Ryan
Welcome to Pond Boss! It's hard to have both nice bass and nice bluegill. I wouldn't add any FHM as that's not good value for money. I would instead feed pellets and harvest as many bass as possible to try to get things where you want.
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,099 Likes: 23
Ambassador Field Correspondent Hall of Fame  Lunker
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Ambassador Field Correspondent Hall of Fame Lunker
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,099 Likes: 23 |
FHM are small, only briefly feeding the 10's of 1000's of starving, stunted 3-5" Crappie that are bound to be in the 5 acres.
Short of sterilizing the pond and starting over, it will be tough to stock your problem causes away.
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Joined: Oct 2013
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Joined: Oct 2013
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Welcome to PBF.
Explaining a little more what the two post above are telling you, reduce the LMB population and the BG population will spring back quickly without any additional fish stocked. As long as there are too many hungry bass for the forage base to feed them, the BG population will have problems recovering.
The LMB population will come back later easily once you have your BG forage base in good shape.
Remove LMB, add cover like you have been, set up a feeding program to boost the current BG population, use aeration so the fish can use all the water depth available. Save your money on FHM as the bass will simply wipe them out before they can spawn. Anything you stock that is less than 1/3 the length of your largest bass will become VERY expensive feed. Pelleted feed is a lot cheaper.
If you want to add some diversity to the gene pool, buy some large adult BG or catch them from another source. Large enough so your largest bass can't eat them. If you and your budies could catch 30 or so 7-8" Quality BG from another BOW that would give the BG genetics and breeding population a boost. I upgraded non-existant BG population in my old pond by doing just that by catching adults from my main pond.
Last edited by snrub; 05/22/16 05:25 PM.
John
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Joined: Aug 2014
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Ryan welcome to the forum,
I think I would feed the bluegill a good high protein feed and remove a bunch of skinny bass. If the crappie are stunted a few folks add HSB to eat the small crappie. Definitely a balancing act. I have a young lake-5 ac with crappie, LMB CNBG CC and BC, so we will see how it plays out also.
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Joined: May 2016
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OP
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I definitely intend to try and reduce the LMB population this summer / fall as much as I can. Hopefully I can get some others to see the light and help out as well.
I am not sure if feeding pellets is realistic for my situation or not. While in the long run it may be cheaper, i don't know that the neighbors will go in on the cost. Additionally, I am not sure that a single feeding station on a 5 acre lake would really be of much benefit - especially since the fish have not been pellet trained.
Adding larger bluegill may be possible though.
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Joined: Jul 2010
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Hall of Fame 2014
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Hall of Fame 2014
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...buy some large adult BG. Large enough so your largest bass can't eat them... Amen to that advice
Fishing has never been about the fish....
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,255
Lunker
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Lunker
Joined: Feb 2007
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I would stock hooks, and lots of them. IMHO, this is the single most important remedial step, and short of killing the pond, just about everything else you do will be thwarted if you don't start with this. However, stocking even a moderate number of really large, healthy adult BG, then feeding, will have definite impact as well, even if you use only one feeder. You don't have to use expensive food to assist the BG, and, don't worry, they'll rapidly get the hang of eating pellets. Added bonus-your son will get a kick out of watching the fish feed, too.
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Joined: Oct 2014
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Joined: Oct 2014
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+1 on stocking hooks. I would also stock GSH. With the more desirable fusiform shape of the GSH, that could help take the LMB focus off the BG onto the GSH so the BG can get a chance to get better established.
Just my 1 cent
![[Linked Image]](http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=11852&filename=I_subscribe_zps2qlyoyn2.gif) Be Brave Enough to Suck at Something New!
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Joined: May 2016
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OP
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I'll have to see if I can find a source for GSH. I am pretty sure the local hatchery does not stock them.
Kinda all depends on shipping costs or where I would have to drive to get tjem as to whether it would be cost effective or not.
I hate the concept of just cutting a Gill and letting a short LMB go to die off, so I decided to make a circle cage. Once I get 20 or so in there, decent enough to clean, i can take the meat to my dad.
That way I am at least not being wasteful.
I know, call me weird like that.
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 6,088 Likes: 96
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Joined: Oct 2013
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I am not sure if feeding pellets is realistic for my situation or not. While in the long run it may be cheaper, i don't know that the neighbors will go in on the cost. Additionally, I am not sure that a single feeding station on a 5 acre lake would really be of much benefit - especially since the fish have not been pellet trained.
The BG will take to feed in no time. Don't need to be pellet trained. They will train themselves. From a selfish standpoint, one feeder on your bank/dock is not a bad thing. The fish will congregate to the feed. When the other owners start seeing the fishing in front of your place twice as good as the rest of the lake, they will get the idea. If it were me I would feed in front of my place and not worry about cost sharing. The fish go where the feed is. That is to your benefit, not detriment. When the others see the benefit, they may get their own feeders and start feeding. By hand or with a feeder. Either way works. I have been hand feeding for three years and it is part of the most enjoyable part of the pond management for me. Watching the fish go for it. Under twenty bucks to buy a 25# bag of Sportsman's Choice 36% protein Game Fish feed at Tractor Supply. The BG will even eat 32% catfish food to give it a try, but the Game Fish is better because of the higher protein and multiple pellet size. You would not be out much to hand feed a bag to see what they do. Start with a soup can full about a half hour before sunset each day. Increase as they start catching on to the feed being there each day. Pretty soon they will hear your footsteps coming and you will see them head your way as you approach the pond. Might take two or three weeks.
Last edited by snrub; 05/22/16 09:28 PM.
John
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Welcome to PBF.
If you want to add some diversity to the gene pool, buy some large adult BG or catch them from another source. Large enough so your largest bass can't eat them. If you and your budies could catch 30 or so 7-8" Quality BG from another BOW that would give the BG genetics and breeding population a boost. I upgraded non-existant BG population in my old pond by doing just that by catching adults from my main pond. IIRC, PB warned us that stocking large adult LMB from another BOW into our waters may not work well because the fish might not adapt to their new environment. Based on your comment, that advice apparently does not apply to BG. I think you're right. But why are large BG able to readily adapt when large LMB often cannot?
Last edited by anthropic; 05/22/16 10:19 PM.
7ac 2015 CNBG RES FHM 2016 TP FLMB 2017 NLMB GSH L 2018 TP & 70 HSB PK 2019 TP RBT 2020 TFS TP 25 HSB 250 F1,L,RBT -206 2021 TFS TP GSH L,-312 2022 GSH TP CR TFS RBT -234, 2023 BG TP TFS NLMB, -160
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Joined: May 2016
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OP
Joined: May 2016
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By the way, I am working on a photobucket album for all my various pond / lake projects. If you want to take a look, feel free. I haven't labeled everything yet, but working on it. Pond projects
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Joined: Oct 2013
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Joined: Oct 2013
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I can't say for sure but I never had any problem moving up to 7+" fish. Most of the ones I moved of the larger size were 5-6" and I saw no problems at all. Caught later after moving them and caught one tonight that was 7.5" that was likely one of the 4-5" ones last year. I'm speculating here. No facts.
I personally would not want to move the 8"+ fish for several reasons. One would be the question you raise. The other would be that if the fish is already several years old it might not have that many spawning years left.
To me the ideal size of adult fish to move would be the 5-6" fish, as long as the LMB in the pond were not over about 15".
My only experience is with a pond full of GSF. By moving adult BG along with several hundred smaller fish, I now have up to 8" BG that I have caught (I don't fish this pond a lot so may be bigger) but even more important, if I put in traps I am getting a mix of GSF and BG fingerlings instead of 100% GSF.
I don't have a concrete answer for your question. It is just what I would do if it were me.
John
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+1 on the single feeder concentrating the BG to one place. I even have LMB that have learned to eat pellets. You can really see how fast they grow when fed. Plus it's a blast to watch them tear up the feed on the surface
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OP
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I am definitely coming around to the idea of the feeder. If you look at the pictures in my links, you'll see I have good area for one.
I have been hand feeding on occasion - plus the kid loves to throw the pellets, but it's not consistent at all. Using a feeder on a timer would certainly help them get trained to the feed. Lord knows, if the ducks see us, they swim like hydroplanes to get to the pellets.
I know I won't be able to get one of the TH ones (my wife would pretty well feed the catfish with my corpse) so I am going to take a look at some of the others and check around for prices on better food.
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Joined: Jul 2011
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Joined: Jul 2011
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Save up until you can afford a TH feeder. They are worth the extra money as they are trouble free and have the best throw pattern.
Brian
The one thing is the one thing
A dry fly catches no fish
Try not to be THAT 10%
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 18
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OP
Joined: May 2016
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Totally understand what you are saying and have read those reviews as well.
Maybe if I can prove that the fish will actually take to it, I might have a better chance on convincing the actual boss of the house.
I'll probably start with one of the Moultrie ones to see how it goes for this summer.
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Joined: May 2012
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Joined: May 2012
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FHM are small, only briefly feeding the 10's of 1000's of starving, stunted 3-5" Crappie that are bound to be in the 5 acres.
Short of sterilizing the pond and starting over, it will be tough to stock your problem causes away. Don't underestimate this advice -- crappie are usually bad news. Many sob stories on PBF about them.
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Joined: Jul 2011
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Joined: Jul 2011
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Crappie just need to be managed like anything else. If you are going to manage your pond, they can work. I love having them in our pond, they are the best tasting fish we have. Yes they are a little work, but that is part of the plan.
Everything in balance.
About feeders, try hand feeding everyday at the same time. That should show the boss how easy it is to train BG. Then get the TH.
If you don't have the time to feed by hand everyday, have her give it a try. There is nothing like experience.
Brian
The one thing is the one thing
A dry fly catches no fish
Try not to be THAT 10%
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 18
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OP
Joined: May 2016
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I have noticed that in the areas where I have been feeding occasionally, I tend to have more weedy/grassy vegetation growing.
Is this possibly being caused by the pellets / overfeeding?
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 6,088 Likes: 96
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Joined: Oct 2013
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I can't answer your question but have wondered the same thing. IE do the fish crap where they eat and leave more fish poop/nutrients in that spot? Or are the nutrients more soluble and move around? I don't know. Maybe some of the fish experts can chime in. I know it is recommended to feed in deeper water. Maybe this is a reason for this recommendation??? I feed all around my pond (not necessarily a good idea, just what I do). I try to throw the larger pellets (AM500 and AM600) out in deep water and only throw the very small pellets (AM400) in near shore where the 2-3" BG hang out. The bulk of the BG prefer to eat in 2-3' of water. That is where they come to and race towards me when they hear the sound of the 4 wheeler coming with the feed. But I throw most of it out deeper to force them out there to eat. If you could get your wife and child interested in feeding the fish, they might become addicted to it and do it regularly. I know it is enjoyable to me. Some people have dogs, some people have cats, I have fish. The nice thing about having pond fish as pets, I don't have to find a kennel to keep them when we travel for extended periods. 
Last edited by snrub; 05/23/16 03:41 PM.
John
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A lot of time we are able to hand feed when we are outside playing with the kid, etc. It's just with schedules being what they are, I can't do it on a constant basis. I think I am going to get this feeder to see how they take to it. http://goo.gl/KQf2wN We can still hand feed when we go out, but at least this will get them trained to a schedule. If they seem to take to it well, I can always invest up to a better feeder and let someone on the opposite end of the pond take this one.
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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 165
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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 165 |
Thought/question on culling fish. From things I have read, the aggressiveness of fish is genetic. That is, if a person stocked only fish that could be caught multiple times, that their offspring would also be more aggressive.
That said, if a bunch of people go to work trying to fish out a balance problem in a BOW...won't the fish that are left (that didn't bite during the attempt to fish the problem out) be likely to breed generations less aggressive fish?
Sean
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