Pond Boss Forums GENERAL QUESTIONS Pond Boss No spill gas cans...

FYI most places sell replaceable spouts for those new gas cans. You can buy a new, old school spout to replace the new and improved spout on your brand new can haha!

I would wager that it wasn't an octane issue that caused your problems, but rather it was the oxygenated fuel burning hot.. AV fuel burns somewhat slower than automotive gasoline, some equipment likes it, while others need an ignition timing advance to really utilize it properly. Trouble is, most small engines have no provision to adjust timing.

FWIW it's pretty easy to add a vent to the "new and improved" cans. I saw this on youtube....Drill a half inch hole and pull thru a valve stem (like you use in tubeless tires).

Those kits I referenced come with a vent for the cans also. Drill the hole and shove it in. I have done it to all my cans.

That would be great. Are they sold as replacements for gas cans or for water cans?

I saw on one site that the new cans have a different thread for the spout than the pre 2009 cans so you can't just put an old spout on a new can. Is that true?

They have a universal kit at TSC, I think for around $20.00 to adapt the new cans.

I take the spout off the can and use a big funnel when I put diesel in my tractor. Much quicker.

Yeah, used to be you could buy the whole can for around ten bucks. Now the spout costs more than the can.

Thing of it is, no. 2 corn is animal feed and it becomes high protein animal feed once it goes through the distillation process. Many plants are now even extracting the corn oil out in the process. So the only component used to make the ethanol is the starch. That part we farmers get accused of making everyone in the nation fat because of all the high fructose corn syrup going into foods.

So don't look at it like the corn is taking food out of anyone's mouth (we are now actually producing all the corn needed for other uses AND all the ethanol industry needs so there is no shortage), you could look at it like we are keeping people from getting fat. We get blamed for doing something wrong one way or the other so it doesn't really matter.

The best thing though (besides cleaner air), is not a single American soldier has been lost fighting over a corn field. I don't think the same could be said for the other major component in gasoline.

Facts about ethanol

"Some OEMs have even used E85 to increase horsepower. Swedish carmaker, Koenigsegg, equipped its CCXR model with a 4.7-liter twin supercharged engine that can run on either E85 or E100. On normal gasoline, the CCXR produces 806 bhp. On E85, this is boosted to an amazing 1,018 bhp,"

I don't for a moment consider ethanol to be taking food away from anyone. I do wish those that claim such a great environmental benefit comes from its usage would consider the impact resulting from the farming procedures needed to see the crop to harvest. It seems the studies always concentrate on burning the stuff in an engine, and never on what's needed to get it to that state.

I think a study that compared the environmental impact beginning from obtaining and refining petroleum all the way to burning it in the engine, to planting, growing, and harvesting the crop AND turning it into ethanol and burning that in the same engine, would be interesting.

I've pretty much gone to the VP racing jugs for gas. EZ-POUR spouts go on the older/smaller cans.

Semi off original topic but has anyone ever made a larger gas tank for a small engine using an old gas can some tubing and say a hose barb?


Like this one:(except with o-rings or some form of sealant)

Esshup posted some info on a bigger gas tank he made for a trash pump several months back. Maybe he will see this post and provide the info again.

Try this instead:



drill a 1/2" hole in a plastic tank, insert the grommet, and push in the steel fitting. The fitting expands the grommet and forms a leak-proof seal. Put the hole in the bottom if you need a gravity feed, or install it in the top if you have a pump. Connect a shorter, pickup hose to the smaller barb with a weighted filter in that case.

Standard stuff for lawnmower tanks.

Oh Crap! I just got 70 Uni-Seals in different flavors.

Grommet on the fuel tank for my generator puked and local service places said no can get.

McMaster Carr has buttloads and craploads of these for a more reasonable price. No equation needed

Sheesh, talk about a huge lingering brain fart!

Has been done numerous times. Pick the data you want to get the results you want.

Anti-ethanol use 1980's wet mill production figures for conversion of corn to alcohol, disregard any credit for the feed portion of the corn returned to the animal feed market which amounts to around a quarter to a third of the value of each bushel of corn, use ag production numbers twenty years old when we ran tractors that made 12 horsepower hours per gallon of fuel instead of 18 like current tractors and used lots more tillage and intensive methods than now, use corn yields from days gone by instead of current corn yields. All you have to do is use the right figures and show that ethanol is net negative energy efficient. Oh, and I almost forgot my favorite one, count the energy radiated by the sun as part of its energy usage.

If you are pro-ethanol, you use the latest data from the most efficient dry mills as production, use modern hybrid yields, give the sun a pass and figure it is going to radiate whether we use the energy or not, use modern ag production expenses of inputs, etc.

Ethanol quit getting any subsidies several years back (initially some cost share money to get plants built and a blenders credit for the ones who blended the ethanol with gas - that is all gone and has been for a while). So if ethanol is net negative energy, the marketplace will sort that out in pretty short order. Unless it is useful for something other than just its BTU content, say something like an oxygenate that's needed to make cheap gas usable in engines.

It is about like every other damn thing in this world anymore. There are no facts or scientists. Just people with agendas. Like the old saying goes, figures lie and liars figure.

Edit: Here is at least one source of energy efficiency. Lots of others available with a search, both pro and con. Choose the agenda you wish to believe. net energy efficiency ethanol

"A 2006 University of California Berkeley study, after analyzing six separate studies, concluded that producing ethanol from corn uses marginally less petroleum than producing gasoline.[2]"

Wish I had known, I have several of these things and would've gladly sent you a few spares!

Thanks for posting that sprkplug. I would have only thought of an old school way with a fitting with seals on each side (like we use on big water tanks). Sometimes it is just a matter of knowing what is available to do the job.

I still like to just go through and browse a hardware, electric supply or plumbing store. Not that I need any of the stuff, but sometimes just knowing what is available that I might never realize existed that I MIGHT need some day.

Yep.

And just for the record, I'm not anti-ethanol. But the number one job I did for years in the shop, right up until a week ago when I locked the door for good, was replace carburetors due to fuel related damage. If an engine is built for ethanol, it's wonderful. Cars, trucks, built in the last 20 years, great. Small engines built last month, not so much. I think I read where you use premium fuel in your own small engine powered equipment...ethanol free premium?

In truth I shouldn't complain, as much of the trouble experienced in the small engine industry is due to lack of knowledge on the part of the engine's owner. How granddad used to do it won't fly these days. Plus, ethanol related issues paid my bills for years, so it's all good.

I do the same thing!

I really like you did not say browse some big box store. I have used the same hardware store every time I can for the last 30+ years. It's not a big store but they seem to always have what I need. Just wander towards the back where the counter is to drop your hand saw off to be reset and sharpened and some retired Guru of everything will ask can they help you. You tell them what you're trying to do and THEY UNDERSTAND and hook you up. Might cost me 5 bucks more than at the big box but somebody helped me and knew what I was talking about! I wander around when I'm having my propane tanks refilled and usually buy something I forgot I needed. It's ok cause one of their young guys are hauling my filled tanks out to my truck for me and loading them up.

Sorry, off my soapbox now.

Glad to hear you are not anti- ethanol. Ethanol is no magic bullet and is likely only a stepping stone that gets us along to better forms of energy. I just hate to see mis-information put out about it.

I agree it can give fits if someone pulls out grandpas 52 Chevy out of the barn that has not run in years and fills it up with ethanol. Likely all the gum and varnish out of the tank and carb along with the fuel lines turning to mush are going to be a bad deal. And a chain saw old enough to not have the right diaphram material is going to quit pumping fuel out of the tank. It is a bad deal for old stuff that has not been upgraded.

Interestingly enough, twenty years ago if we had gas line icing problems we dumped in something like Heet which was - alcohol. Maybe methanol (which is much worse corrosion wise) or ethanol. If we wanted to clean the carb a bottle of carb clean which could be petroleum distillates or...... yep, alcohol. But it was only run for a short period of time likely.

Another self induced problem is the people that are so anti-ethanol go way out of their way to not use anything with ethanol. So the fuel pump in the bottom of the gas tank gets varnished up, the fuel system gets a little dirty. Then, for whatever reason they are forced to put some 10%E in the tank. The varnish in the gas tank gets cleaned out, the fuel system gets cleaned out, and plugs up filters or worse injectors. "Yep, ethanol's fault. Had no problems till I used that damn ethanol." Sometimes people can be their own worst enemy.

Where the small engine industry is going to have problems will be with the expansion of E85 into the market. 10% will work with a little understanding on the part of the engine's owner but 15% is a no-fly. For now.

FWIW I had a 2005 Explorer that would burn E-85 or regular gas. There was a drop in mileage with the E-85. I found that E-85 had to be at least 30 cents a gallon cheaper than regular gas for it to be cost effective.

To answer your question about our premium gas being non-ethanol, I'm not sure. I've never ask. It might be, becausw our supplier knows what we use it for. It is all off road use and goes into 4 wheelers, water pumps, seed tender wagon engines, air compressors, chain saws, welders, generators - basically all types of small engines. So he may very well decided to supply non-ethanol. If he even has it. It is a 300 gallon tank and we might fill it if we will be using a lot of gas in season or might just put a hundred gallons if late in the season. But the gas could get used up in a month or two or it might be in there five or six months. I know I ask my foreman (the guy that calls supplier when we need gas) to see if he would put conditioner in it but never heard back if he does or not. We have not had a problem that I know of. Up till a couple years ago we just carried 1 to 5 gallon cans to whatever gas station and filled a bunch of them at once. That was a hassle. So I am sure we were getting ethanol at least part of the time then. In everything we run there would be only two small engines that I could pin their demise on ethanol. I don't think it was the problem, but if I was anti ethanol that is what I would blame it on. Other than those two that I am unsure of the problem (and expediency or economics just had us replace the engine), we have not had any problem and started using ethanol laced gas as soon as we could buy it. I think it keeps the fuel systems cleaner than straight gas.

That sounds about right Bill. I have a friend that blends half E85 and half E10 in an Escalade and swears he gets no mileage penalty with the blend. He claims a slight mileage penalty with E10, a big penalty for E85 (which should be expected) but none for the intermediate blend. This is a non-flex vehicle. For some reason he thinks there is a sweet spot with that engine where the computer cqan take advantage of the higher octane that offsets the lower BTU of the alcohol. Dunno. He is not even a corn farmer so no reason to promote it. But whenever he is around E85 he tank blends. Been doing it for at least 5 years. Think the truck is around 200k miles. Illegal, but he speeds all the time anyway so legality is not a big stumbling block for him.