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Joined: Apr 2015
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Took the kids out tonight and the gills were really biting. I caught 2 fat, very full of eggs females so they are about to spawn which leads to my questions. First my pond is 1/8 acre and 11 ft at full pool which its at and above right now steep sides (basically a bowl) and a water table pond
First question is I stocked a little of everything last fall before I found this site, hbg, yp, lmb, cc, fhm, and black crappie. I was pretty sure I killed everything over the winter by leaving my diffuser to deep but tonight I caught 2 hbg from my stocking last fall( at least I think see pics below) in addition to the regular bluegill I stocked this spring(50). Should I stock lmb this fall to keep the bluegills in check? I plan on stocking 8"-10" yp this fall again so I get s spawn next spring and wanted to wait till next year for the lmb but without any predators in there for sure I don't want the bg to get out of control

Second, if I can get them now should I put in the yp ASAP to help with the very small bg and hold of on the lmb?

Third, just to confirm my id are these hbg?




And here is a pic of one of the female bg

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How many of each species did you initially stock and what size?


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2nd picture is a HBG.



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Most were 2"-4" rates were 50 hbg, 25 yp, 25 bcp, 15 lmb, and 10 cc (6"-8") the fhm, sticklebacks and mud minnows that came with the fhm have all spawned numerous times and are plentiful, however I'm only catching very large fhm 3" plus in my trap something is putting a hurting on the smaller ones but there are still a lot of sticklebacks and the occasional mud minnow in the trap every time I put it out. After ice out I could see huge amounts of fhm on my underwater camera but they are few and far between now not sure if it's the gills or something else that is responsible. Fishing with minnows has only yielded 1 yp and 1 bg

After researching on the forum I opted to put regular bg in since I thought I had bass and the hybrids wouldn't keep up especially in my northern climate so I stocked 50 this spring mixed sizes 4"-8"

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#1 is a BG.


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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
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Thought the first one might be a hbg because of the light blue around its mouth, I can't believe how fast they changed color in the tanin stained water they are really dark compared to how they were when stocked 3 weeks ago

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They change colors quickly.

1 = BG

2 I would say is a GSF but could be a HBG

3 pic not sufficient may be female BG

Last edited by ewest; 06/24/15 02:12 PM.















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Bluegill color variation.





















Last edited by ewest; 06/24/15 02:50 PM.















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Wow that's crazy! Are the red ones that way from water conditions or just genetically that way?

If that's a pure strain green sunfish I'm gonna have a little chat with the farm I got them from! So I'm gonna go with hbg 😀

Knowing what I do now I would've started with pure bluegill since I want bass, oh well when it becomes a total mess at least it's small and won't be to bad to start over. It's all about learning!

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Those are all regular BG. The colors vary that much for a number of reason common to all BG. Coloration is caused by lots of factors.

Last edited by ewest; 06/25/15 09:50 AM.















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Many things can affect fish coloration including water clarity and chemical composition, bottom color , mating , light penetration and intensity . Color is often affected by the current situation such as the fishes status as predator or prey, aggressive or passive, agitated or calm, angered or under attack etc. Their coloration scheme is often divided in categories such as warning coloration , cryptic coloration , disruptive coloration , or countershading . Much of coloration is controlled by cells called chromatophores and iridophores which react to the various stimuli.

A fascinating subject and probably more than anyone wanted to know about fish color including changes. As I read the description I could picture the changes occurring just as I have seen it many times.

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/AqSciSubWebIndex/coloration.htm

http://www.clarku.edu/departments/biology/biol201/2002/CSantos/Colored%20Chromatophores.htm

Long before aquariums we’ve known that fishes change color in response to their background, and that they change color during exercise and courtship. These changes in appearance are under the control of pigment containing cells called "chromatophores".

Some examples of this loss of dark color are ... sunfishes (Lepomis) that can quickly blanch from dark to light or come back again given fright or excited states.

Chromatophore changes can be divided into two categories, morphological and physiological. Morphological changes are usually evoked by maintaining an organism in a given setting, on a specific background for a number of days.
Physiological color changes involve alteration of pigment granules causing dispersion or aggregation consequent to various stimuli, e.g. light, temperature, chasing.

The control of aggregating and dispersing of pigment granules is caused by changes in the chromatophores ionic charge. A change of charge within the cell causes a change in color. There are two ways to change the ionic equilibrium within chromatophores, hormonal and neural. Both "paths" are often employed, one working more gradually, the other more immediately. For example, the time required to change from light to dark varies immensely.

There is good evidence that melanophore control by advanced bony fishes is principally actuated by the autonomic nervous system.

There are two principal chemicals that are produced and release by neurons (neurohormones) that affect color.
Epinephrine (Adrenalin): A nerve-activated hormone that’s released by an organism when it is excited or scared, causing pigments to contract and the animal to blanch, lose color.

Acetylcholine: A chemical that is active in muscle tissue, movement, almost always causing melanin to disperse, darkening the organism.

Morphological color changes are due to amounts of pigment present in the chromatophores of an organism. Morphological changes occur very slowly, generally over the course of a month or more, and are usually permanent.

Types of chromatophore are characterized by the color they carry. Erythrophores contain reddish pigments found in carotenoids and pteridines. Melanophores contain black and brown pigments called melanin. Xanthophores produce yellow pigments in the form of carotenoids. Fish are capable of producing some pigments, but others must be supplied in the diet. For example, they cannot produce carotenoids naturally. They accumulate carotenoids from their diet and transfer them into pigment cells to produce red, yellow, and orange colors. The intensity of the pigment is reliant on the quantity and types of carotenoids supplied in their food. The carotenoid pigment found in most marine invertebrates is astaxanthin. Another pigment that is derived from a food source is phycocyanin. This pigment is blue and is readily found in blue-green algae. Additionally, the ability of fish to store pigments they have acquired from their diet will greatly affect their appearance.

Various hues are made possible by the combinations of different layers of chromatophores. Cells carrying more than one pigment are called compound chromatophores. Most fish that appear to have green coloration on their scales actually have a layer with yellow pigment and another layer on top that scatters light and reflects a blue color. There are other types of chromatophores that do not retain pigments .

Note that there are two types of pigments true or based on color and reflective. Also note that not all chromatophores contain the actual pigment color that they appear. That is, that some work on different principles other than selective absorption/reflection. The iridophores contain quanine crystals that reflect different wavelengths of light, which give them an apparent color though no true pigment is present. Further, there are two types of iridophores or reflecting pigment cells, ones with decidedly larger and smaller quanine crystals. The larger crystals can change their orientation to reflect different colors of light. Cells with the smaller crystals can aggregate or disperse their pigments thereby controlling the intensity of color.

Because iridophores are typically light in color, the effect of dispersion and contraction is opposite that of melanophores. When quanine crystals are aggregated, the cell appears darker. The plate-like crystals give off iridescence as seen on the top and flanks of many fishes (e.g. Silver Dollars, Metynnis, Mylossoma, Anchovies, Engraulis).

Green, gold, red, blue and many other colors can be reflected selectively by iridophores. The iridescent blues of Neon Tetras (Paracheirodon innesi) are a result of quanine crystals for instance, and not blue pigmentation.

Fishes also utilize combinations of pigment cell types, with iridophores and melanophores mixed.

Much more in the links.

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.ph...true#Post135555

Last edited by ewest; 06/25/15 10:02 AM.















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Very interesting reading, seems like they are almost Chameleon like in the ability to change color. I used to have a koi pond at our last house but sport fish a proving way more interesting to keep than the pretty carp. I have never been as excited about a fish as I was the other night when I caught those females full of eggs!

My plan right now is to stock 100 8"-10" feed trained Yellow Perch in September to make sure I get a spawn next spring. Can I wait until the following fall to stock LMB? I'd like the bluegills and perch to get a head start before the bass get in there but don't want a stunted mess. I was hoping the larger perch would crop some of this years bluegill spawn allowing me to hold off on bass. I can get 8"-10" LMB when the time comes to add them. My overall plan is large panfish so from my reading I want lots of small bass. I am starting to feed but the bluegills are not feed trained and I don't have any takers yet.

I found a fish farm about 2 hours from me that I can get the 8"-10" yellow perch for $1 each I'll report back when I get my fish this fall on how they are. That is by far the lowest price I've found for YP and that is all they raise


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