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Just joined the forum and was searching for past post related tot my questions below but didn't find any.

I'm wondering if any one has experience constructing a smaller pond in front of the main pond. The purpose of the small pond would be to catch sediment and in the event of big rain falls divert the flow around the main pond through an overflow spillway channel. Basically I would have to build two dams. I have a drainage area of 250 acres or so and a constant flowing small stream. My intent would be to have a slanted PVC feeding the large pond from the sediment pond and then the typical "L" shaped drain at t he dam of the larger pond. I was thinking of using a 8" PVC to feed the big pond and 12-16" PVC for the big pond drain. I can get huge amounts of flow with big rains and the diversion ditch would hand this. Looking for pointers. Thanks.

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Yep. Catmandoo has done a number of them to do just that. Maybe not exactly that same design, but he's put in a number of sediment ponds to keep the main pond from filling in. He makes sure that the sediment pond is easily cleaned out.


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Thanks for the quick reply. I guess my main question is designing the diversion ditch around the main pond. The ditch would actually have water flowing through it more often than the typical emergency spillway. I'm guessing with a 2-3" rain it would have water going through he diversion ditch because the 8" PVC won't handle much more than the normal flow of the stream. My main worry is the diversion ditch handling a lot of flow that I know I can see. I don't have a lot of room due to the terrain of the land but I want to make the diversion ditch as large as possible 30-40' with flat bottom and 3-4' foot sides. I'm guessing a highly erosion resistant grass would be the best for the bottom. The sediment pond would have 4' or so of free board in hopes of absorbing some flow before it went around. I think I can have as much as 450CFM of flow with a 6-7" rain.

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Luke,

I'm about to head back out the door with my wife, as part of mother's day. When I get back I'll post more about the settlement ponds I've dug to trap sediment and control erosion. Also I'll post about the wetland that I built to filter other water coming into my main pond.

Ken


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I’m looking for feedback /concerns on my idea for pond construction. (see attached pictures) I will be having some test holes dug this week. My main concern has always been how to handle the large amount of flow during large down pours (drainage area is 250 acres). My idea is to have a smaller sediment pond with a smaller pipe( 8” to 10 ”) that feeds the main pond. This pipe would be sized to handle the normal creek flow. The sediment pond would have a spill way that leads into a diversion channel that goes around the main pond. The diversion channel would be about 30’-40’wide 3’ and 3 to 4’ deep and planted with grass. The main pond would have a normal stand pipe but larger guessing 18” or so. Thanks for your thoughts!

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We have a stand pipe on our sediment pond, similar to what you have on your main pond.

An over flow pipe takes water to an adjacent stream for heavy downpours. That said, in a hurricane the other year, our sediment pond filled up level with the top with sediment. It's only about 30x50 ft, so, not very large.

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Buckseller,

It is nice the sediment pond did its job. Much easier to clean out a small pond than a big one. I was thinking I could go either way on the drain pipe on the sediment pond, a slanted single pipe or "L" style stand pipe. The “L” style might make construction a little easier because the water could run through the pipe during construction and then once the dam is full height could add the elbow and vertical section. The single slanted pipe is nice because it has no joints for potential leakage.

If you don’t mind me asking, what is the diameter of your main pond drain vs. the sediment drain? Since the main pond pretty much receives all of its water from the sediment pond drain I would think you would never exceed the main pond stand pipe level if you were just a few inches larger in diameter. The extra inches could account for straight rainfall onto the pond surface and some run off from the sides.

Thanks for your feedback!

Luke

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I have a small sediment pool before my pond. Glad I did it even tho it was a spur of the moment decision., but as always, you see thing that could be better after it's done. I don't have the area like you to run a valley to one side for major rainfalls. I really like that ability.

One thing that I would consider in your scenario is having a shut off in the pipe from the sediment pond to the main pond. Reason being is that if you get a heavy rainfall that brings suspended soils with it, it will pour into the main pond and turn the water brown for a week or so. With the shutoff valve, if you see that happening, you would have the option to stop it, open it back up once the big event is cleared up.

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I have a sediment pond upstream from my big pond. We use the 'dry dam' (why it's called a dry dam I have no idea, there's water on both sides) to cross the creek. We have the overflow lined with riprap. It's worked well for 5 years now. Really seems to hold the sediment well.

Added bonus for me, I use the sediment pond as a forage grow out...I put FHM's in it. They are going bonkers - and have no predators beyond frogs and birds. When the water overflows some wash into the big pond. And my plan is towards the end of the summer to see how many I can seine out. Hoping it'll be a perpetual source of food for the big pond.


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I like the idea of being able to cut off the sediment pond supply during down pours to keep muddy water out. I suppose if you knew when the downpours were coming you could close a valve or put a plug at the inlet. I was also thinking one could probably design a shut off flapper that would close automatically by use of a float. When the float rose above a certain level the flap would rotate about a hinge to shut off flow. Maybe something like a toilet tank float. Not sure about how to make it open back up automatically since the water level would only drop to the spillway height.

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I attached a simple illustration of what I was trying to describe in my last post.

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Originally Posted By: Luke Dubuque


Since the main pond pretty much receives all of its water from the sediment pond drain I would think you would never exceed the main pond stand pipe level if you were just a few inches larger in diameter. The extra inches could account for straight rainfall onto the pond surface and some run off from the sides.



From an engineering standpoint, that is risky thinking. You don't design one failsafe assuming that a dependent system will never fail.

You hope to divert large influx events. If that system jams or fails to work how you hope and most of the influx passes to your main BOW, you must be prepared to deal with passing it across your main dam. If you overtop the settling pond, that's worse than a bad rainfall. A 20% capacity overflow would be overwhelmed quickly, then you're looking at emergency spillway to take it. There are guidelines out there to size systems based on maximum rainfall events. Spending money on a professional evaluation may be worth your while.

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We have a 4 inch PVC coming out of the sediment pond and an 8 inch pipe going out of the main pond.

You are correct, it is possible to put a 4 inch cap on that and stop flow to the main pond. The rest goes out the overflow of the sediment pond.

The other week we put pond dye in the main pond and capped off the 4 inch pipe. Prevented dilution of the pond dye. I opened it up a couple weeks later.

We are going to have a big rain event here tomorrow, and wish I'd have had time to cap off the pipe tonight.

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OK. I'm back. We were without Internet for the last several days due to bad storms that took out major Internet distribution site about 25 miles from here.

We've gotten 5-1/2 to 6 inches of rain in the last four days. Three of those inches came last night. I awoke to some pretty high and fast flowing water this morning. I was actually picking trout and hybrid bluegill out of the bushes below my put-and-take pond.

Anyway, at times like this, I'm really glad I have my settlement ponds and mini-wetlands -- or whatever you want to call them. With about 6-inches of rain, my ponds are still basically clear -- that is, they are not muddy.

My little ponds and my wetland areas mostly slow down the water. Even with a lot of water current through these ponds, it slows things down enough so that leaves, soil particles, and other detritus, sink to the bottom before going out the drains and over the rock walls I've put in place.

My settlement ponds don't filter all of the water, but they filter the main supplies. My small wetlands filter other runoff that comes down broad areas.

I have two main ponds. The uppermost pond receives much of its water via a ravine that drains 40-80 acres. Two of the pond's sides are also saturated with water that weeps into the pond nearly year around. The main water source for this pond is via a settlement pond that is about 10 feet wide, by about 15 feet long. It has two 8-inch by 12-foot long PVC pipes that extend through a small dam that is about 10-feet across. The lower pipe is about two-three feet above the bottom of this settling pond. The second pipe is about five feet above the bottom of this pond. Now and then water will go over the small dam. It was doing so this morning because the upper pipe was clogged with branches and leaves -- but they didn't go into the pond below.

Here are a couple of photos of the uppermost settling pond:





This pond has three 8-inch outlet pipes, plus an emergency overflow that is about 8-foot wide and filled with 6/8 rip/rap. The top of the rip rap is at the height of the top of the main outlet pipes.

Here is what it looks like coming out of the three outlet pipes, with the water on its way to the main pond via three more settlement ponds. One can be seen in about the middle of this photo. The main/lower pond can be seen beyond.




Here are a few other views of the middle settlement pond that is located between the two main ponds. It is about 15' x 30' and about 3-foot deep.




This is the last settlement pond where water enters the main pond from the upper pond.



What can't be seen in these photos are the rock dams (rock piles) in the water path. I have stacked a lot of large rocks at the entrance to each settling pond. They not only catch debris, but they slow down the water, causing less erosion. Over time, vegetation has grown between these rocks, causing even more water cleansing.

I clean these ponds out about once per year with my backhoe. I would estimate that I take out about two-feet of rotting leaves and muck from the upper most settlement pond. The last settlement pond collects about a foot of muck and leaves.

I also created a wetlands area that cleanses the water during times like this week. When we first bought this place, it was a muddy barren and eroded area. It flooded regularly, so I couldn't get grass to grow. I built a series of three dams from barley straw bales. They dams were about 30 feet long, and separated from each other by about 10 feet. During dry times I built beds for things like horse radish. Eventually, I got some grass to grow, which was eventually overtaken by wetland plants. This area stays wet at least nine months out of the year. It is hard to mow or bush hog, but it sure cleans a lot of nutrients out of the water flowing down the hill. The straw bales completely disintegrated several years ago.

The bottom pond also has an 8-foot wide emergency overflow area. Its bottom is about 18 inches above the main overflow. This morning, it had over a foot of water running through it. It usually has water in it less than once per year.

Good luck,
Ken





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Ken,

I really appreciate the information. The pictures are great. Were these taken after you recent big rain fall? I like the idea of the mini-wetland as a natural water filter. I may try something like that down the road. It is nice the plants just moved in when the environment was right. It looks like you have a real nice setup.

Luke

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Yes, all of these photos were taken yesterday afternoon.

Ken


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We have a pond for 15 years now without any major muddy water issues, it's about 3/4ac and 15' at the deepest.
in the last 12months the lot uphill from us has been under construction and the new owners are city folk and not aware of country living and dealing with water run off from their lot. I've asked that they divert the water or put up some control measures but they have done little. Their 2 12in pipes under their new dirt driveway flow 1/3-1/2 full with hard rains and dump a bunch of mud along with the water. Our pond is about 200' from their driveway but the amount of water flow has been pretty high at time this summer. Our pond is now a sad shade of tan light clay that in 2 weeks has hardly settled out at all.
With all of the mud/clay that has already flowed in that 200' of wooded area, I suspect that that even if they stop the flow from the driveway now that the muddy water will still flow for years into our pond. I'm trying to come up with a way without digging a new pond, to take the water coming from their property onto our pond. I have about 10' of my property to work with.
Can I take like a 4" pipe say 100' long and capture the dirty water lay the pipe in my pond and exit out one of my drain pipes? Much like if you laid a garden hose in a bucket and started a siphon?
Defiantly not my first option, but the neighbors don't seam to care right now about my pond even though they put their house with about half of the front windows looking right down on it.
They have a better view of it than we do.

any suggestions?

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Originally Posted By: Luke Dubuque
Just joined the forum and was searching for past post related tot my questions below but didn't find any.

I'm wondering if any one has experience constructing a smaller pond in front of the main pond. The purpose of the small pond would be to catch sediment and in the event of big rain falls divert the flow around the main pond through an overflow spillway channel. Basically I would have to build two dams. I have a drainage area of 250 acres or so and a constant flowing small stream. My intent would be to have a slanted PVC feeding the large pond from the sediment pond and then the typical "L" shaped drain at t he dam of the larger pond. I was thinking of using a 8" PVC to feed the big pond and 12-16" PVC for the big pond drain. I can get huge amounts of flow with big rains and the diversion ditch would hand this. Looking for pointers. Thanks.


Did you ever get your sediment pond built Luke?

Here is one I finished.
Snrub's sediment pond


John

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