Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Types of fish to choose anticipating spring stocking...need some advice

Just a thought to throw out there. In small ponds where overbreeding may be an issue why would you not Use Gambusia minnows over FHM?


Gambusia are known to prey on eggs, larvae, and juveniles of various fishes, including those of largemouth bass. They are also known to prey on adults of smaller fish species. Gambusia are difficult to eliminate once established (Meffe 1983; Marsh and Minckley 1990),

Gambusia would probably just be there. They probably wouldn't effectively "control" the population, and wouldn't be a real numerpus forage base. They would have minor effects on the ecosystem, but nothing drastic. For a small pond, you never know, things can be different depending on habitat and other stuff.

I thought I read somewhere that gams were too fast and small to be used as forage. I figure they cant hurt but if they eat eggs that would be good for me. I worry about bluegill overpopulation.

You could always go with the HBG instead of the CNBG.....

By the way...Happy Birthday!

I have considered hbg but worry because I have not been able to find a reputable source in texas. Anyone know of any? Most down here deal in cnbg except the fish truck guys.

thanks for the birthday wishes. I turned thirty today and my wife tells me as a gift to price what I want aeration and fish wise make a decision and she will foot the bill. Definitely picked a winner. My first love is music and been playing guitar 15 years after putting up with my guitar addiction this long i guess she figures this one will be cheaper. Little does she know. And got me a subsciption to the boss this evening..thats what I call a good day.

Tony, good advice for Northern ponds but we have options in the South that need to be discussed. I love your passion and posts for your HBG and have a high regard for your achievements.

WRFinTX, the reason that you can’t find a reputable source for HBG in Texas is fish farmers like Bob Waldrop of Tyler Fish Farms and Todd Overton of Overton Fisheries will not take any risk to dilute the pure Florida CNBG genetics that they have spent years developing.

If you want HBG they are cheap and easy to obtain when the Arkansas fish truck shows up at your local feed store. Just be prepared to accept many junk species in the mix.
George

WRF,

Take a look here. They have HBG listed in their price sheet.
HBG in Texas

I don't believe that Todd raises HBG on his farm but will let him speak for himself.

I do know that Todd has many reliable sources and since he is in the fish business can obtain just about any species a customer wants.
George

We have HBGL listed in order to be competitive. This is the only reason they are listed. I don't put them in my ponds, just buy and sell. Recently we have experimented with HBGL in some aquaponics systems. You have never seen me promote HBGL on the forum for pond stocking. They typically under-perform and have to be restocked because they seem to disappear over time in ponds. They are promoted by some outfits because they are hardy and easy to find. I recommend CNBG. They will grow larger and provide HSB with forage.

Typically underperform? I suppose that might depend upon one's definition of "perform"?

I regularly catch HBG that weigh between 1.25 and 1.5 lbs, I never have to worry about them overpopulating the pond and stunting, (matter of fact, they help control my LMB yoy), and a HBG will hands down outfight a comparably sized BG (and I suspect a CNBG as well) anytime.

That's my kind of underperformance!

Tony, I love your kind of "underperformance"!
I believe it's a big mistake to compare northern ponds with southern ponds and why I don't ever give advise about ice fishing...

I recall Ewest posting about growing some of Todd’s CNBG to 1 lb in 12 months and this is our growth rate as well.
I have hit near 1.5 lbs in 18 months a couple of times.
I was shooting for 2 lb CNBG but fish kill of 2011 set me back but maybe some day……

There is absolutely no concern about CNBG over population if proper management techniques are applied.

Good point SPRKPLUG. It is all relative.

But relative to the hype? Here is a quote taken from another website promoting HBGL: "This fish will reproduce twice per year which makes it ideally suited for feeding a new or existing bass population. However, this fish will reproduce at 90% male so it won't take over your pond like most bream. It will feed on a commercial feed with annual growth rates of up to 1/2 to 3/4 pound per season. With a good management program in place these fish can reach weights of 2 to 2 1/2 pounds and exceptional fish will reach the weight of 3 pounds or greater! Make the Hybrid Bluegill a part of your management program and reap the rewards for years to come." Compared to this they typically underperform in my experience.

I don't make big claims about HBGL. It is up to folks in the field to report results. I am sure millions of HBGL have been stocked nationwide. Where are all the pictures of huge HBGL from the field? There should be more pictures of these trophies. I can't find many.

Todd, Tony, George, I agree with all your points. It's all about the customers goals for that particular pond.

For instance, take a pond where they want to manage for trophy BG, have a FA problem, and the pond is stocked with LMB as a predator. The goal is to have the LMB concentrate on eating the YOY BG. Would Hybrid Tilapia (i.e. typically 90+% male) be a better choice to stock or still stock 50%/50% ratio of non-hybrid Tilapia?

What is a hybrid tilapia?
I manage our small pond with same sex tilapia - no overcrowding and good FA control - normally 5lbs dependant upon severity of FA.

G/

George, I'm pulling for you on those 2lb CNBG!! I would love to see you posting photos of those beauties! I'm hoping for a great growing season in Texas, with plenty of rainfall...you guys certainly deserve it!


As far as the HBG hype....sure, there's some out there. I consider such hype to be the leftovers from an obsolete way of thinking, from a time when HBG were often labeled as the perfect sunfish...the answer to stunting problems in ponds everywhere. Now we know better, or at least most of us do. Unfortunately, there are still some places that advertise the fish unfairly and inaccurately. But this is not the fish's fault, as much as it is the folks selling them.

To automatically discard the fish due to inaccuracies in its description may, in some instances, be doing yourself as well as your pond, a disservice. If my new car doesn't get the 60 mpg that the salesman who sold it to me said that it would, do I blame the car?

No....I blame the person who misrepresented it to me, and I blame myself for not doing the proper research, and not shopping/talking to other dealers before I bought it.

George makes an excellent point when he says that the risk of CNBG overpopulation is of no concern if proper management is applied. I agree with him on that point. But I must also stress that the very same is true of the HBG. When are we ever going to get over this idea that one can simply dump HBG fingerlings into a BOW, and be on your way to a trophy sunfish pond without fear of any repercussions?

That idea won't work with HBG, anymore than it will with native BG.

As far as trophy Bluegills go, yes, native BG have the potential to outgrow HBG. That doesn't automatically mean that they will. Take the photos of those three pound Bluegills we all love to admire....they seem to come from one or two places. How many guys on here have three pound bluegills swimming in their pond? Shoot, how many can reliably and consistently catch two pound bluegills in their own BOW?? Where are all the photos of those fish? That's often touted as a reason to choose BG over HBG...BG will get larger.

How many will get larger? Let's be honest,what percentage of an average CNBG population will hit two pounds? I haven't raised a two pound HBG yet, but I've got fish that I think are capable of getting there.


I'm not trying to argue, or say that the OP should stock HBG. I'm actually in agreement with what's been said here.....It's all relative.

WRFinTX, sorry your topic got hi-jacked!
If I can be of any help PM me – what happens in Texas stays in Texas…

Im actually glad it got hijacked. This info is very valuable to me as I have admired all of the respondents success in their own ponds and am trying to create some of this myself. Both tony and george grow beautiful fish hybrid or not and are obviously doing things right. I value all opinions and agree ultimately it all does depend. I feel that since my goal is to be able to fish sporadically and have a few meals a year...also be able to get my almost two year old daughter into fishing...that I will probably end up going the cnbg route as I am blessed with good genetics close by in buffalo tx. That really has more to do with it than anything. The fish truck guys worry me. I don't wanna start by stocking inferior fish and I cant guarantee the quality off a fish truck vs going and seeing and picking up my babies.

Again thank you to everyone for the great advice.

Randy

Randy, if I was faced with the choice of having to drive 6 hrs one way to get good quality fish, or have iffy fish delivered, the driveway would be in the rear view mirror in a heartbeat.

Im with you esshup. Ill be making the trip the last weekend in February to get my little guys and gals. At least then ill have piece of mind knowing I stocked good quality and if I screw it up....which I am sure I will..I can blame myself.

I'll just throw in an opinion, but I wouldn't stock HBG unless I absolutely needed to because I just think they're fugly.

I have caught them to about 1.25 lbs out of the pond at the Bush Library when I was at A&M. Also it's like "yah, I caught a big sunfish, but what the hell does it count as?" I feel the same about the guadalupe/smallmouth mutts that you catch out of the guadalupe river. It's almost like a "tainted" fish to me.

I much prefer CNBG if given the opportunity. They are very pretty. Though I still prefer the look of the bluegill strain from the Mississippi River that I caught from the oxbow lakes in NE LA though.

Anyway, that's my opinion on Hybrid bluegill. I understand there are situations where HBG work better than a regular BG though.

As they say, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Lots of folks like to target carp, or catfish, and they probably won't be winning any beauty contests' anytime soon.

I've even heard rumors that suggest some folks in the vicinity of the Trinity River target Alligator Gar..... Guess it takes all kinds!

I've fished for gator gar in the navasota river (a little to the west of the trinity). I've had a 5-6 footer hooked, but about 35 lbs is the best I've caught. We used live male bluegill on 80 lb braid/steel leadeds and bass gear. Probably would have ruined a reel on a good fish. Was fun though.

I've kayaked directly over a gar that was about 7 ft long on the colorado. I got about 3 ft over the top over him (about 3 ft over him) before I realized it wasn't a stump (fairly clear water that day). I know the approximate length and size because he seemed as long as my kayak and just as wide. I about pooped my britches when I saw what it was (middle of winter and was afraid I was going to spook it and have it turn me over).

George, a hybrid Tilapia is what they typically raise for the food industry, and treat the eggs somehow (I don't know how) so they are mostly male - they grow faster that way. If you have access to a bunch of Tilapia, and the supplier can sex 'em for you, so much the better!!!

Scott, you weren't around when tilapia were first introduced to our Texas ponds, but we have a lot of experience.
Overton can sort male/female tilapia as fast as he can look at them - even I can sort male/females from the same water.

Food industry source of tilapia may be necessary for your part of the country, but a non-issue for Texas ponds.
They are readily available each spring and inexpensive.
G/

George, they are available up here too, but not readily, and they aren't inexpensive!!