I'm considering a property to retire on near St Louis MO. It has a great watershed and dam on the property (sounds great and looks great for fishing). I've heard a lot about ask boss and would like to hear your thoughts about the renovation involved as there is a lot of neglect (years in fact).
I have not visited the site since it is not on the market yet, just looking at it with Google Earth and what relatives have said in the area.
In the attached pictures, I see several issues that need to have attention of a professional. I am wondering if I have sized the job up properly as follows:
Given the pond leaks and the dam has a lot of brush on it, clearing the brush and planting grass must occur. Also, the integrity of the dam is further compromised by doing the clearing, so this must be fixed along with the leak. The leak should be found first and corrected above and below the area (if I can find it), but with all the clearing the whole section may need to be rebuilt (the middle of it).
No rear bank edge of 3 feet (land just slopes from watershed). Will bring in vegetation growth along that edge unless made deeper.
Definitely, need to get the cows out of it with a water feeder through the dam and extending the fence.
Dam has been solid for over 20 years at least, but been neglected for 10 years.
I have just covered the integrity issues of the dam. It might even leak on the floor (I see rock). Limestone, clay, and loam in the area, but other ponds exist on property that hold water so, soil should be ok but may need to haul in clay for dam and bottom.
Build structure for fish and stocking.
This looks like a bigger job than starting from scratch... How expensive (any guesses) under or over 10,000, 20,000? I really would appreciate your thoughts.
If I buy this place and venture into the work, I will definitely post how it is going.
If the brush on the dam is not trees, and they aren't larger than 4" diameter, then all that is needed is to cut 'em off at ground level, paint the cut stumps with Tordon RTU and go on your merry way.
My question is where will the water come from, and why isn't it holding water now? Typically a pond has a layer of clay in the area that will be under water to seal the pond. It should be anywhere from 18" tp 24" thick, made up of 4"-6" layers knitted and compacted together with equipment like a sheepsfoot roller. Just driving over it with tracked equipment like a dozer usually won't compact it properly.
Until you physically get on the place, there's answers that can't be given.
How much clay is on the bottom of the pond? Where will the clay come from to patch any iffy areas? Why is there no water in the pond now? etc., etc.
Look in the Pond Boss Store for the book Perfect Pond. I'd recommend getting it and reading it. It will answer some questions that you probably don't even know that you need to ask.
The information on the dam is helpful and your questions give me some direction for research. I agree, not having been on the property yet leaves some questions unanswered.
I'm going to take a wild stab at this because it sounds like my son's pond that I renovated for him last fall.
The overgrowth on the pond dam was covering up about a 18-24" wide breech where there used to be a culvert for the overflow. It had washed out around this culvert and all that was left was a narrow ditch and broken pieces of old clay tile culvert. The sumac and small trees over growing the area made it almost impossible to see the breech till I was nearly on top of it.
If that HAPPENS to be the problem, it might not be too bad of fix. Of course while the pond is low or dry, it would also be a perfect time to make any improvements needed before the breech is fixed.
I agree about it being easier to work on when it's dry. $$ is spent draining and then playing around with the slop that is left, and pushing around slop takes time. Time = $$$$
Thanks snrub. Enjoyed so far and haven't finished reading yet and viewing all the pictures. One thing I caught early on is how you are 'blessed' with the equipment and I would add 'know how'.
I don't think we have the overflow pipe problem and washout you had and based on posts so far maybe not trees but shrubs on the dam that can be cutoff at the soil line....
But, the muck in the deepest part sounds familiar and I liked how you got rid of that. The slope does not look too bad from these pictures, but I'm not sure on that. It is definitely a pond meant for watering live stock and that is similar too.
One thing I must do if I buy is get a professional. Like esshup recommended, Perfect Pond has been bought and I cannot wait to get it so I can get some more ideas about this purchase.
Thanks so much for your post and I look forward to reading all of it.
If I had to "pay" someone to come out and clean out the ponds I have been dealing with, the first place I would go is to a contractor that had a large trackhoe. The professionals around my area that do pond clean-out use a trackhoe to scoop the muck out (so the dozer does not have to slip-slide around in the muck), then dozers to push the muck out of the way and where it needs to go (so the trackhoe can keep working and not be moving around a lot or having to move dirt multiple times).
But I did not own a trackhoe so used what I had.
I don't know if St Louis is still in clay pan soil area. What the bottom of you pond has to be is going to determine a lot of any renovation cost. In our area we are "blessed" with clay pan soils (cursed if you are farming them) so all we have to do is scoop out a hole and in most instances it holds water. esshup on the other hand is in soils that are much more difficult to make a pond that holds water. So depending on the area and the soil you have, it might be as simple as scooping out the muck, or much more involved if a clay or plastic liner is needed to hold water.
That is where the professional that knows your area is invaluable.
If you happen to have a really good NRCS guy they can be a lot of help and advice also. The one for our area is good.
About the soil. I looked at some State surveys and it looks like the property lies in between the Zeil Platform and River Hills sites. It has clay but needs to be examined for exactly what it contains and how far down. There are rocks visible behind the existing water and that might also be the problem. I think if it is bedrock, I am finished, but don't know.
If I had to "pay" someone to come out and clean out the ponds I have been dealing with, the first place I would go is to a contractor that had a large trackhoe. The professionals around my area that do pond clean-out use a trackhoe to scoop the muck out (so the dozer does not have to slip-slide around in the muck), then dozers to push the muck out of the way and where it needs to go (so the trackhoe can keep working and not be moving around a lot or having to move dirt multiple times).
But I did not own a trackhoe so used what I had.
I don't know if St Louis is still in clay pan soil area. What the bottom of you pond has to be is going to determine a lot of any renovation cost. In our area we are "blessed" with clay pan soils (cursed if you are farming them) so all we have to do is scoop out a hole and in most instances it holds water. esshup on the other hand is in soils that are much more difficult to make a pond that holds water. So depending on the area and the soil you have, it might be as simple as scooping out the muck, or much more involved if a clay or plastic liner is needed to hold water.
That is where the professional that knows your area is invaluable.
If you happen to have a really good NRCS guy they can be a lot of help and advice also. The one for our area is good.
You can use a combination of large equipment. Trackhoe and tractors with pull behind scrapers to haul off the muck. Trackhoe and a dump truck. A large loader and dump truck can work in some cases. I would advise against using just a trackhoe to clean out the muck as the trackhoe can not move the muck out of the working area.
Corndog, a wheeled (articulated) or tracked loader can be a great compromise if you don't have too far to go to dump. I was able to enlarge my dam with the dirt pulled out of the pond. I worked into the muck, pushing dry clay into the muck so that it was manageable...like making biscuits. Once it was the right consistency, I scooped it up and dropped it off.
I also moved about a thousand yards of dirt from a berm to the dam about 750' downrange. I am still amazed at how much dirt you can move in a 40-hour rental.
