I started reading the Pond Boss forums about a year and a half ago, when we bought a house on a few acres in the country outside Wichita Falls, TX. I finally registered on the forum so I could write about my pond project and get advice from the great folks on this board.
We liked this particular place because the house is at the top of a small hill, with a view down the property into a creek-bottom area with native trees. Most of this region is mesquite plain, so any real trees are mostly found only in creek bottoms. The lower part of the land down from the house has a low area that probably used to be part of the old creek bed. There are actually three creeks that come together just a quarter mile or so downstream from our property. I should mention that in this part of the country, most creeks like these are dry most of the year. They only run for a few days after a heavy rain. They have no water at all in them most of the time. The closest creek bed is about 75 feet from the nearest corner of our property.
I’ve always wanted a pond, so I immediately began planning. The previous owner had started a small pond in the low area, and water was standing in it when we bought the place in spring 2012. I like to do things myself, mainly to save money, but also just because I enjoy the planning and doing. I borrowed a laser transit from my architect brother and we surveyed the lower part of the property on a 50-foot grid. While we were at it, we logged a few points onto the adjacent ranch so I could get a feel for where the water comes from. I plugged the points into a neat public-domain software called SurGe. It took my points and drew contour lines. I used Photoshop to overlay the contour lines onto the satellite photo from Google Earth. The results are shown below.
There is no real valley in the low area shown on the plot, so no need for a dam. Our neighbor whose house is actually down in the creek bottoms told me that the creeks have flooded three times in the six years that he’s lived here. His house is surrounded by a dike about four feet high to keep the flood waters out of his house. He told me that he’d like for me to use some of the dirt from my dig to build up the road that goes to his house. He already has a culvert to put through it that would also serve as an overflow for my pond. You’ll see his house, dike, and access road in some of the photos.
After getting the contour plots and also plotting the available watershed from the USGS topographical map of our area, we arrived at a pond of about half an acre. The maximum depth must be something less than 12 feet, because another neighbor in the creek bottoms just near our house deepened his pond with an excavator during a dry spell. (We’ve been in a terrible drought around here for years…) He hit sand at about 12 feet, and after that his pond wouldn’t hold water. Down to 12 feet, the soil is really heavy clay that holds water great! In fact, I’m about to take him a few loads of my clay to line his pond with so it will hold water again.
Back on subject, here is an image of the pond area drawn onto the contour plots. Below that is the area calculation using Google Planimeter. I learned about these software tools mostly from browsing the Pond Boss archives.
The plot of the watershed area shows a little over 15 acres draining into the area of my pond. I’ve drawn in the nearest creek bottom on the watershed area calculation.
The local soil conservation office told me that 15 acres of grassland watershed would support a pond of about 0.4 acres. That is less than the area I’m digging, but my thinking is that since this is north Texas, our ponds stay less-than-full most of the time anyway. My plan is to have a deep end in the bigger end of the pond, and then a shallower area in the narrower end (the part to the left in the pics). I figure I’ll just do what it takes to encourage grass and semi-aquatic plants to grow in the upper end for the most-of-the-time that the pond is low.
There is also the likelihood that the creeks will flood my pond from time to time. I’m not thrilled about that, but I’ve resigned myself to the fact that I’ll have to live with it if I want a pond. I’ve decided that it mainly means that I shouldn’t spend a lot of money stocking fish in it if they’re just going to wash away every time it floods. But my opinion is that I’ll find a way to live with it if it’s something that just happens every 2-3 years.
The watershed area is all grassland, so I’m hopeful that I may be able to eventually have a pond that won’t be the thick reddish-brown color of most of the stock tanks in this area. I’m a chemist by profession, so I’m excited about using alum and lime to try and clear it up as needed!
So, now on to the digging! After much research on this forum and also at heavyequipmentforums.com, other places online, and folks in the construction business, we decided to buy a used pull scraper and tractor. We settled on the tractor and scraper combination because: 1. We could buy them cheap enough for our budget. 2. We should be able to sell them for about what we paid for them when we’re done. 3. The maintenance on them is cheaper than a motor scraper or dozer, and these were way cheaper than either. 4. Because I’m not making a dam, I need to haul the dirt as far as 250 yards up the hill to dump it. I read that dozers dig better, but scrapers haul better. 5. The tractor/scraper combination is a one-man operation compared to excavator/dump trucks. 6. We bought the tractor and scraper for about one-third of what an experienced local excavator quoted just to dig the pond. If we can sell them for close to what we paid for them when we’re done, we’ll just be out diesel, repairs, and time. And I’ll have the satisfaction that I did it myself!
We already had a couple of tractors, but not one big enough to pull a medium-sized pull scraper. As I’ve mentioned, I like to save money and don’t mind working on things like tractors and implements. As my handle says, I also have a part-time hay operation with my brother. Our newest tractor is a 1979 Ford 540 Industrial, and our oldest one is a 1943 Ford 2N. Our hay mower/swather is a 60s vintage, and our baler is early 80s. So I am used to working on them!
We started watching Craigslist, going to auctions, and browsing the various equipment sites like machinerytrader.com. We eventually found a 1973 Massey Ferguson 1155, 140 hp Perkins V8 diesel at a local metal scrap yard. They had bought it at a farm auction for scrap, but discovered that it ran and drove it 60 miles to their yard. It still needed a lot of work, so it was for sale at about ¼ the going price for these tractors. We drove it home 20 miles to our place, and then I spent about 6 months working on it, mainly fixing leaks and replacing hoses, fluids, filters, and a couple of the tires. It runs great now, with the only inconvenience is that it burns about 2 quarts of oil in a full day of working. The oil usage has gradually declined as I’ve run Lucas oil and fuel treatment through it, and just run it a lot more.
After tons of searching, we finally bought a Reynolds 6P scraper at a farm auction near Bowie, TX. It is an early 60s model, and needed its hydraulic cylinders rebuilt and some hoses and bearings replaced. But I got it at about half of the going price for similar scrapers. I am told that the model number 6P means that its heaped capacity is 6 yards. Here are a couple of pictures of the tractor and scraper.
I read that the rule of thumb is that you need about 20 HP per cubic yard of scraper capacity. From my experience so far, that seems about right for my heavy clay soil. I don’t think my Massey would pull a larger scraper.
I finally got to start digging in early summer of 2013, two months after buying the scraper. I no sooner got the topsoil removed from the pond site that it rained 2 inches one evening and filled up the shallow excavated area. But it was great, because it let me see what the pond may eventually look like if it ever fills up!
Because I’m essentially digging a big hole in the ground, I had to figure out what to do with 4000-5000 cubic yards of dirt. Our place has a wide, shallow valley from the top of the property down to the pond area, so I’m spreading the dirt out over the hillside. The area is about three acres. I scraped all of the topsoil off of the area where I’m putting the dirt. I piled it all up at the top of the hill at the edge of the property so I can put it back in place once I’m done so grass will grow again.
I had friends and family that wanted to see the tractor and scraper in action, so we shot a short video and put it on YouTube. I’ve pasted it below. I figure that I get 5 or 6 yards in the bucket most of the time, and I can make a round-trip to dig and dump in about 3 minutes most of the time. That means maybe 1000 trips or so, or at least 50 hours of continuous digging. I travel a lot in my work, so I have to just work on it when I can. But I’ve gotten the deepest part down to about 6 feet, so I think that I’m about half finished. I feel pressure to get it done, because I’m in a race against time to get it done before we have a big rain that fills it up. That would mean that I’ll have to wait until it dries out enough to work on it again. I also want to get the digging done so I can re-spread the topsoil and get grass growing on the hillside again to stop sediment from washing back into the pond. I’ve seen over the years that most of the time, our stock tanks fill up all at once from a 2-4 inch rain that comes all at once, from spring/summertime thunderstorms.
One pleasant surprise is the low diesel usage that I’m getting. Test data on the MF 1155 says that it uses about 9 gallons an hour at full throttle and full load, but I’m only using about 2 gallons an hour so far. I think that the reason is that it only takes about 25 seconds to fill the pan. That is the only time that the engine is pulling hard. The rest of the time I’m just idling along in overdrive, hauling to the dump site or driving back to dig the next load.
I welcome any comments or suggestions, and I’ll post more as I move along on the project.
(Mr.) Kim
“Life is a headlong rush into the unknown. We can hunker down and hope nothing hits us or we can stand tall, lean into the wind and say, ‘Bring it on, darlin', and don't be stingy with the jalapeños." - J.M "Red" Spicer - Amarillo, Texas
Even if you don't break thru into the sand, I would see about renting a sheepsfoot roller to compact the pond bottom after you've gotten it to the depth and contour that you want. If no sheepsfoot roller is around, I'd fill the scraper and max out the air pressure in the tires, and drive all over the pond bottom a few times to compact the soil.
Another thing, if you don't break thru the sand, I would dig some test holes to see exactly WHERE the sand was, and make sure that I had 24" of compacted clay over it. You could dig down to 11'-6" and only have 6" of clay over the sand....... That might stay sealed, and it might not.
The other option would be to continue deeper than the 12' where you think the sand is, then re-fill and re-pack clay over the sandy area. Deeper is better to hold more water in reserve. If you lose 6' of water due to a dry spell, your fish won't have that much water to swim around in.
Also I wouldn't sweat loosing many fish in a flood, it will just thin the herds. You could also plan for floods my creating a diversion for floods to the majority of high water will bypass your pond.
Mr Kim just wanted to welcome aboard another TX hay farmer. Great first post.
I'm sure you get your soil tested for your hay, so any applications like lime that you need to balance your pasture PH will be needed in the pond also. It might be a good time to do that testing now before the pond fills up.
Also, you probably will get aquatic weeds if you leave the upper end shallow. Searching the archives may help you find some more desirable plants, but be forewarned because the water fluctuation will affect those also. I've lost arrowhead, hardy lilies, eel grass, etc. to water level drops.
Thanks, esshup. It's nice to hear from a moderator on my first post! Yes, it was already suggested to me that to get it as deep as I can, just dig a couple of feet into the sand and then cover it back with a couple of feet of clay. That's essentially what we're going to do with my neighbor's pond. I do plan to keep digging as long as the hole stays dry. We had a little ice and sleet last weekend, so now it needs a week or so before I can have at it again. The tractor and full scraper do compact it a lot. I've gone out of the way to stay out from under the trees with it so I don't compact their roots and kill them. Thanks, Kim
“Life is a headlong rush into the unknown. We can hunker down and hope nothing hits us or we can stand tall, lean into the wind and say, ‘Bring it on, darlin', and don't be stingy with the jalapeños." - J.M "Red" Spicer - Amarillo, Texas
Good thinking about the trees. I have a client that had a contractor that didn't think about that and he's lost in excess of 200 trees in the past 4 years around his ponds. Some Oak Trees as large at 34" diameter.
I'm pretty close to you, right across the Clay county line in Arrowhead Ranch Estates. I understand the race to get something done before we get the rain. It will come...someday.
I'm pretty close to you, right across the Clay county line in Arrowhead Ranch Estates. I understand the race to get something done before we get the rain. It will come...someday.
If you need a hand with anything, let me know.
Mark
Hi Mark, It's indeed a small world! Read on and you'll see just how small! Your story about your pond was what inspired me to write one about mine. Of the thousands of posts about pond projects on this site, the first one I opened the other evening was your recent update on your project. I couldn't believe it, because I live only about a mile due south of you! We are also in ARE. Our place is in the SW corner of the neighborhood, due south of the water tower. You're welcome to stop by anytime and have a look at my progress! Just find the end of Wampum and you'll see my tractor and shop on the left. Best regards, Kim
Last edited by NTXHay; 12/10/1304:10 PM.
“Life is a headlong rush into the unknown. We can hunker down and hope nothing hits us or we can stand tall, lean into the wind and say, ‘Bring it on, darlin', and don't be stingy with the jalapeños." - J.M "Red" Spicer - Amarillo, Texas
While I realize only a small portion of us here on Pond Boss Forum have the capability or opportunity to do so, there is a lot of satisfaction in doing the work yourself and seeing the finished project turn out the way you wanted it. At least for us "hands on" kind of people there is a lot of satisfaction.
I thought something looked familiar about that satellite picture. Your neighbor is a buddy of mine that is on the volunteer fire department with me. (Hope y'all get along alright!) That's his runway that has he has been working for some time.
Yep, it is a small world! I'll accept the invite and come over when it warms up a bit. Maybe I could get you to teach me how to do that topo mapping stuff...that's pretty cool.
Yep, it is a small world! I'll accept the invite and come over when it warms up a bit. Maybe I could get you to teach me how to do that topo mapping stuff...that's pretty cool.
Hey Mark, I sent you a PM with my cell number so we can get together sometime. Thanks! Kim
“Life is a headlong rush into the unknown. We can hunker down and hope nothing hits us or we can stand tall, lean into the wind and say, ‘Bring it on, darlin', and don't be stingy with the jalapeños." - J.M "Red" Spicer - Amarillo, Texas
While I realize only a small portion of us here on Pond Boss Forum have the capability or opportunity to do so, there is a lot of satisfaction in doing the work yourself and seeing the finished project turn out the way you wanted it. At least for us "hands on" kind of people there is a lot of satisfaction.
The old V8 Perkins sounds strong.
Hi snrub, I've really enjoyed resurrecting the old Massey. I've never had a tractor this large, much less a V8! I'd never heard or seen one before I found this one! It has quite a unique sound! I'm used to the old 6-cylinder JD 4020 and 5020 sound, which is more like a purr than the roar this one has! My neighbor thought that I had bought a dragster the first time he heard it! The main reason that I went ahead and bought it was that mechanically it seemed sound. It just needed a lot of TLC from apparent years of sitting around and neglect. It had great oil pressure, ran cool, and all of the gears and hydraulics worked. It has an old Massey version of PowerShift called Multi Power that lets you shift to an extra high range on the fly. It's really convenient when hauling back and forth for the dig and dump. As you can see from the video, the 6-yard scraper gives the ole Massey about all it can handle! But as with all things mechanical, I've gotten a lot better the more I've used it. And the Massey has run better the more I've used it. I guess it just gradually got all of the cobwebs blown out. Thanks, Kim
“Life is a headlong rush into the unknown. We can hunker down and hope nothing hits us or we can stand tall, lean into the wind and say, ‘Bring it on, darlin', and don't be stingy with the jalapeños." - J.M "Red" Spicer - Amarillo, Texas
Another plug for the sheepsfoot roller. Compaction from your heavy machinery might not be enough. I've no first-hand experience, but I've read plenty of sob stories here from people in your neck of the woods who didn't use one and regretted it. It's way, way cheaper to get it right the first time than to try and fix a leaky dam.
Another plug for the sheepsfoot roller. Compaction from your heavy machinery might not be enough. I've no first-hand experience, but I've read plenty of sob stories here from people in your neck of the woods who didn't use one and regretted it. It's way, way cheaper to get it right the first time than to try and fix a leaky dam.
It can be done if you know what you are doing. That's a big if though.
