Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations I had USGS truck on my street near the pond today

I saw a USGS truck today with the strangest aerial antenna mounted to the roof today.He was stopped just around the corner from the house.I would have liked to talk to him for a min but I had to run my dad to the Dr's.I'm wondering how they get their readings,mainly because of a elevation issue I have on the backside of my pond.Chances are it is part of the Sandy mapping project http://www.usgs.gov/newsroom/article.asp?ID=3666 .I'm a little nervous about the remapping but oh well.

I had an unmarked truck pull into my driveway and three men go out and pounded and removed steel rods in my biggest pond dike that faces the highway. They moved fast and quickly left before I could ask them what they were doing. I know what they were doing as I've seen this done on an earthen damn of a reservoir. They were checking for leaks.

I'm guessing they were a contractor for our department of environmental management or the highway department. Their haste may have been because they were trespassing?

I contacted my highway department and either they played dumb or had nothing to do with it.

This is the exact type behavior by gov that makes the people angry. Absolutely no respect for the governed. There is a reason for the "no unreasonable search and seizure " part of the constitution. Where is the probable cause ?

The Fourth Amendment (Amendment IV) to the United States Constitution is the part of the Bill of Rights that prohibits unreasonable searches and seizures and requires any warrant to be judicially sanctioned and supported by probable cause. It was adopted in response to the abuse of the writ of assistance, a type of general search warrant issued by the British government and a major source of tension in pre-Revolutionary America.

ewest, I've seen several of your posts referring to the Constitution of the United States. Very refreshing to see a person of your career choice quoting it! I LIKE IT!

We have the typical high power electric lines cut thru our property. Neighbors on each side of us, with marshy/swampy areas. It makes access to the lines on our property very difficult for them because they don't want to go thru the swamps. What burns me up, is they always pull in and use my driveways and farm roads to access them, without asking. I politely remind them the minute I see it happening that I am granting them the privilege of using my roads, and they should always ask first. You never know when I may be target practing .

They are expanding their wires in the next few years. We get a cover letter explaining that they will be doing this, but hidden inside all their type is a short bit about some agency taking soil samples every so often. I think it was something to do with archeological reasons. Just great, if they find something they will prohibit more use of the property. I don't like it, ...Sneaky, round-about ways....

Cecil,I would have been irate if something like that happened for sure.I pulled tape from my webcam and he did stay on what technically is a road,so I cant complain too much.I don't have a dam but I do have a section of property with berm that separates it from the tidal creek behind it and the height of this ground dictates what i can do with my pond to a point.So I am a little uneasy as to how and what they mapped in my case I had planned on getting a survey,permits and a friends dozer back there,but at this point in time the money just isnt there for such a task.

Ewest,I hate to say this because I served in the military and come from a family that had 3 generations before me who served.But if things don't change in the near future and my parents dont start getting younger,chances are I'll sell everything off and go punch a hole in the ground elsewhere where I can build a house next to it in the future.

Move back to Michigan. We have mild winters now

Don't count on it.

I had more to go with this, but deleted it.

JKB if I move back to MI,even with milder winters chances are I'll end up with 5 more kids or a wife that always has a headache neither of the 2 are options for me if I want to keep the peace at home.

Plus I'm still a little bummed about them bulldozing my old watering hole.You where probably smart enough to keep away from the joint though,they used to call it the Boondocks

The SCOTUS has made several rulings commonly referred to as the "open field doctrine". It is pretty ridiculous in how broad it is, but it is current interpretation of the 4th Amendment. Government agents can freely enter your land for any reason and search it. Some states have laws that restrict this, but as far as being protected by the US Constitution, you are SOL in past precedence of court rulings.

Interpretation is ambiguous at best, and open to high degrees of corruption/fallibility from all levels. No "real" authority and guidance, so leads to Chaos! Everything get's twisted and screwed up from original intent and you end up with Chaos.

Just normal stuff tho.

CJ that line of cases deals with criminal search and evidence. Katz et al do not give the gov carte blanch to come on your property and do work. They can be guilty of trespass if the activity is not allowed. Plus the doctrine is limited to "open fields"(broad test) but given CB1's pond and house and business I question if that would pass muster.

In my simple mind in the way I read that, it says something about property that is fenced or made known to the public it is private is off limits. I would think putting up something as simple as no trespassing signs helps tremendously in your rights and ownership.

Argh! Don't get me started on this topic, Eric! I'll probably end up getting moderated! You are obviously spot on about the protections of the 4th Amendment but I see daily how those protections are being eroded to the point that we have so very few true protections left. Much of it is in the name of "homeland security" which just boggles my mind. Why does my local municipal police department need a homeland security grant? I think we have a fully capable military that can handle threats to our national security. Of course, the military is being hung out to dry to a large extent by the current administration. Let my local police focus on catching crackheads that are breaking into houses to steal stuff in support of their drug habit. I'm pretty sure those folks aren't seeking to undermine the government or commit acts of terrorism.

Alright. Stopping now as I've probably already gone too far and am certainly waaaaaay off topic!

When even the police think things are getting out of hand, you know they are... I think things are getting out of hand and so do most of my fellow law enforcement officers in many aspects involving the erosion of our Bill of Rights.

CJ and Todd I hear you both. Things are out of hand. When this stuff starts something bad happens and the pendulum will swing back somewhat.

Agreed, buddy. A lot of my cop friends/acquaintances feel that way. Regrettably, there are also those who seem to relish the freedom to intrude with little to no consequence. I'm glad there are guys like you who still believe in individual liberties.

Let's just hope the "something bad" is short of full blown revolution! You are right that eventually the pendulum has to swing back, but man does it ever frustrate me to see the abuses that take place. Cecil's situation got me fired up. No reason for things like that to happen when a simple personal interaction would take care of everything in a peaceful way.

Yeah all they had to do was ask me and i would have said no problem. If anything I was interested in how the process works as I'm a consumate science geek.

On another note the highway department doesn't like me discharging into the highway ditch from the big pond. If I'm running the well 24/7 into the trout pond, that overflows into the big pond it dumps into the ditch 24/7.

As far as I can tell there is no law against it but they aren't happy with it. It does no harm, and in fact before the big pond and overflow was put in, there were erosion issues. Putting the pond in took care of that.

I pay ditch taxes which should mean something. However if I get my wish and move the trout indoors with a recirculating system their won't be any overflow. And I'll be using much, much less well water.

Cecil you think this last visit was prompted by the Highway Dept. ? That is looking for evidence to confront you with.

Hard to say but it makes the most sense as any problems would effect the highway.

Where do the drainage ditches run? Do they drain into state waters? That would be a no-no up here

Another thing you may want to consider is they were taking core samples. You can tell a whole bunch of history from those things. I doubt they were checking for a leak

I do know it's definitelty different up there in Michigan. I know of a dentist that drained his pond into a ditch and got fined $11,000 for it. His ol' bitty neighbor turned him in.

Don't all waters end up in state waters at some point? My pond drains into the highway ditch that ends up in a stream called Solomon Creek, then the Elkhart River, then the St. Joe and finally Lake Michigan.