Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Feeding Feeding caged hybrid striped bass?

I have attempted to research all I can on “feed training” hybrid striped bass in cages.
My questions:
(1) Are there any special designs, construction materials or sizes that seem to work best for homemade cages? I’m looking at introducing (Summer 2005) about 200, 6 to 8 inch HSB into 3 acre newly constructed pond. Pond presently is being stocked with yellow perch for future supplemental forage base. (reference: Bill Cody)

(2) The feeding system will have to be automatic as I am not at the pond on a daily basis. I have purchased a Stren feeder (Thanks Greg Grimes) and I would like to know if there is any experience or expertise out there in setting this system up for automatically feeding caged HSB? It appears to me the feed will partially hit the cage when the feeder goes off and then drift across the cage before the fish have a chance to eat it? I have never seen nor been involved with cage culture and I am quite green on the subject. I assume the cage will have a lid to keep fish from jumping out. If so, all the more difficult to get feed into the cage automatically??

(3) Or, would it be best to just set the feeder to go off automatically and hope the HSB train themselves in a free ranging environment (no cage)? Will they ever find the feed in a 3 surface acre pond?

Any and all advice is greatly appreciated!

Thanks,
Ed

Ed,
We sell them that size quite a bit for pond stocking. Most should sruvivie bass predation that size. They get really expensive if much larger. They are raised in the hatchery on feed, so they do just fine with the Stren feeder going off in the pond. Now if you're worried about bass predation and want to get them bigger that is another issue ut them in the cage first.

On the cage we use 1/4 inch mesh and make the lid the same so fed will go thru lid. We do it by hand b/c like you said the feeder will cast it all over. If you have a dock you can buy a much cheaper feeder that basically throws the food straight down into the cage.

The key is getting protein food that is at least 36% even better if 40% if cost efficeint. If you can get trout chow that will work as well.

Others chime in please I'm no expert on hybrids but know they do well in ponds with supplemental feeding with auto feeder and high protein food.

The only reason that I'm aware of to use cage culture techniques for raising SBH would be if you needed to remove the fish efficiently for sale. Cage culture is not necessary for feed training. Feed traing SBH is kind of like minnow training your largemouth. Not hard to do. If the cages are being used to protect the fish from predation I'd rather risk 20 or even 30% mortality from predation as opposed to risking 80-90% mortality from fungal infections that could arise from crowding the fish into cages. Even if you're not at the pond every day they will figure out the feeding schedule in short order. An even easier method to get your fish on the feed bag is to distribute feed by hand scattering the feed on the upwind side of the pond on a day with 5-10mph winds. This will allow your feed and the accompanying slick to travel across the pond until the SBH find it. After locating the school throw the additional handsful of feed toward your feeder and coax the school gradually toward the feeding station. Future hand feedings can be done the same way. SBH will figure this out and automatic feedings will be a piece of cake. This will work on ponds that are 10-15 acres. The way that SBH figure out feed location is by sound. Any one fish that locates feed will make a sound during feeding that is identifiable by nearby fish. This "dinner bell" rings loud and clear to all fish. Pretty soon you'll be able to throw the feed to any part of the pond. Once one fish figures it out, they all will. The upwind side of the pond works best though during early stages of training because this prevents uneaten feed from accumulating at the shoreline before being located. Trust me. If SBH can home in on a school of shad from half a mile away, they won't have any trouble locating the pellets.

With 6 to 8 inch fish you should be able to go up to 3/4 inch mesh. I get largemouths that size every year and I use 3/4 inch mesh. The larger the mesh the better the circulation which is what you want.

In my pond I have to brush off algae accumulation one a week in summer or the mesh will clog up and cause problems. It depends on how fertile the pond is. You may not have that problem at all.

Here are some links on cage culture including hybrid striped bass in cages:

http://aquanic.org/beginer/systems/cages.htm

Bruce makes an excellent point on caging HSB. Fungal infections in hybrids increase significantly in cages. The reports I've seen recently do not advise this technique and those close to me that have tried this method in the past strongly discourage it.

May be so with hybrids but I typically don't have problems with fungal infections in my largemouth I put in cages as long as the water is warm enough for them to feed on pellets. If you plant during a cold spell and the water does not want to warm up and feeding is slow then you can have problems with fungal infections.

I have excellent success with my largemouth in cages, and in fact I have better sucess with them than any other species.

By the fall when they are 10 to 12 inches I release them with the rest of the larger bass.

I do set a diffuser between cages now in summer to circulate water through the cages. A good boil coming up between cages makes for healthier fish.

I'm not saying you WOULD get high mortality from caging SBH. I'm saying it would be a potential risk. In confined areas I see fungal infections on SBH virtually without exception, dependant of course upon duration of confinement.

Thanks a bunch for the response!

I believe I will first attempt to feed HSB in a free range setting as mentioned by some to save $$ on cages. I guess I totally “spaced out” the fact these fish will probably be coming off pellet feed from the hatchery. What else could they possibly be eating, therefore they should already be feed trained…..duh!

There are no other large predators in the pond (ie. LMB) I guess unless these fish forget how to forage for pellets they should be ok.

What if a person were to construct a cage and put a "few" HSB in confinement under the feeder??
Stress should be reduced as Bruce mentioned and the resulting fish should do well? Also wouldn't those feed trained fish train others outside the cage with their feeding activity??

This site has me psyched-up; I'd really like to raise some nice HSB. I believe, as do some others, that pushing these fish with supplemental feed will allow me to accomplish that goal. Hopefully (with Bill Cody’s and others help) I can make this HSB/YP combo work in my neck of the woods. Gee.... I must have cabin fever, I'm beginning to ramble.

On a side note: Received a phone call from a friend (non-Pond Boss subscriber) that he was ordering some crappie to put into his LMB pond and wanted to know if I wanted some. I tried to explain to him that there were probably better choices for Bass forage. Anyway I think this site has given me an awareness that only several semesters of college course work may have accomplished.
Thanks again,
Ed

The verdict seems to be that some species of fish do well in this type of environment while others don’t.

A friend of mine did some research back in his college days at Rutgers. His research included density experiments involving HSB and different size cages. He concluded that HSB don’t do well in any cages with water that has low hardness. He needed to add calcium chloride to increase the hardness and in addition used a great deal of lime as well. According to him the results where in the end always the same. There was significant mortality and those that were able to survive were sufficiently stressed that feed intake was poor. Even in optimal conditions the tight quarters would lead to diseases like columnaris. He also mentioned that improper handling at the fingerling stage would have a significant impact on them as well. We did not discuss the length of time the fish were in the cages.

Ed,

My 2 cents...my recent experience says Bruce is right on. Even in a pond with LMB, their survival rate is very good running free. They take to the feeders almost immediately. They are a great fish! Can't wait till they get 4 or 5 pounds and take a PomPom. That is something to look forward to.

Ed, I think it would be exciting to try constructing a low-density cage setting for some hybrids along with a good number of free ranging fish. I'd really like to know how construction goes and what your cost and results end up being. Go for it, and let us know how it works!!

Ed - I think the HSB in the low density cage will tend to keep the free ranging HSB nearby those in the cage. Also if you build a cage for the HSB be sure it is a cylindrical cage not a square or rectangular cage. Research has shown that better results of survival of HSB occurs when cylindrical cages are used. Cylindrical cages are not as important when other species are grown in cages. If you use an automatic feeder you can build or adapt a baffel to keep feed from being thrown beyond the range of the cage. However pellets drifting across the cage will also provide food for the caged fish. Feeding activity of caged fish will provide a feeding stimulus for free ranging HSB and other fish.

I would think twice and be careful of leaving fish caged and somewhat unguarded as you describe. If word "gets out" you could lose many fish.

PS Another pondowner near me is establishing a new pond with HSB and y.perch. We can compare notes.

Thanks again guys for the advice.

Bill, my closest neighbors son (about two miles) and I had a little discussion about pond management, poaching, etc. I did most of the talking! At the time we were raising rainbows and they were disappearing from the pond in 5 gallon buckets. I was furious when I caught him, but we did part with an understanding. Come to think of it, I did the same thing when I was his age?!

Ed

EE, I expect you got the same kind of talking to when you got caught poaching at his age. It's part of growing up.

Must be nice to have the closest neighbor 2 miles away.

Ed - You might be able to work out a deal with the neighbor kid to keep watch over the pond and fish in exchance for the priviledge of fishing while you are there to guide, direct and instruct. Teach him an appreciation of what it takes in terms of money and work to raise quality fish. Once he realizes this, he may appreciate it more and help you protect your investment.

I stocked 75 hybrids on May 6, 2004. They were purchased from Greg Grimes and were at least 6-7 inches in size. I have a 3 acre pond in central Georgia. I also added a "load" of threadfins. Saturday before last I caught a 15.5 inch 2 LB hybrid with water temp of 44. You may see a photo at http://www.frankpinkston.com/haddock/feb5index.htm

Frank

CONGRATULATIONS
I'm envious - looks as if the 6-7 inch stockers and threadfin shad were the secret?
Did you have adult LMB in your pond?

Nice looking fish, Frank. What did you catch it on?

George,

I stocked LM bass in June of 2003 so yes I do have adult LM. I am catching LM in the 2 pound range.

I caught this hybrid on a small beetlespin type of spinner.

Frank