Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Selecting a site Renovation begins - FINALLY!!!

Not sure if this is the right area to post this but here goes....

I've been a member here for 3+ years asking questions and reading most everything. Finally I feel like I can add something by posting about my pond experiences so far.

My wife and I have always wanted to buy some acreage to move to once our daughters were done with high school. I wanted a pond - she wanted to keep her horses on our own property. Getting a tractor was a bonus for me. After looking around we found a 32-acre site with a 60-year old 2-acre pond. Problem is there was a 200-year-old house that needed work and a stone barn that needed even more work. We wanted no part of that and wound up selling the house, barn and 10 acres to friends giving us 22 acres of land. In dividing we property we wound up sharing ownership of the pond.

I knew the pond was not perfect and probably needed some work. I was OK with that since finding a property that would support a new pond and getting it approved was not something I wanted to deal with.

Anyway, after some research (thanks to everyone here) I figured the best thing to do was have it drained and rebuilt. There was significant muck buildup, trees all over the dam, nutrient overload, watermeal, fish kills, beavers, muskrats, leaks......

I found this website and read as much as I could. I subscribed to Pond Boss magazine, purchased Pond Boss books and ordered several back issues of the magazine. I got all of my approvals (State of PA - to drain a lake bigger than 1 acre, and NRCS - erosion and sediment plan) and search for a contractor. The first quote I got was for $100,000!!! I searched more and found some good excavators who knew farm ponds. The better ones didn't give me a firm estimate but told me the cost per machine per hour and a ballpark idea of the total cost. I picked a local guy who has been doing this for 20 years or so. A few months later the project had begun. It was March 2006 when the machinery arrived and in a few days the pond was drained and all of the trees were removed from the dam. The plan was to let it dry out for 6 months and in the fall begin rebuilding.


Here is the pond just before the purchase...



Here are some before and after pictures....

Before....




After....



Before (notice how far the water level is below the standpipe)....



After....



I waited for the project to resume but 6 months soon turned into 16 months. I was starting to get worried that the project would never be finished. I knew the contractor was not blowing me off since he had come back for other projects (clearing trees, a barn site, gravel driveway). Finally the machinery returned last week.

So far the drainpipe installation is nearly complete and the muck is being bulldozed to one corner to be moved and spread out on an area I will probably use for hay. There will be a tremendous amount of dirt to remove but in the end the deepest part should be 12-14 feet. It looks like the pond was only 7 or 8 feet deep when originally built 60 years ago. And much of it was never deeper than 3 or 4 feet.

I took some pictures yesterday, 2 days into the renovation.

Here is the new drainpipe....



and 1 of the 2 concrete antiseep collars...



Here is the muck pile so far (much bigger than the picture shows)....



I hope the excavator will be done in 2 or 3 weeks. I also hired an Amish deck builder to put in a dock for me in about 4 weeks. Fish structure being built. More pictures to come....

Thanks for all of your help.

Yee haw...another cool project to follow. 2 thumbs up for RobA and extraordinary patience. Your dividends will pay back huge.
Keep the pics and text comin'!
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(edit; that pic of the concrete anti-seep collar really exhibits serious committment to structural integrity. The clay looks even better)

Yep, that's some serious lookin clay.

What kind of fish population was in the pond when you drained it?

Nice setting for a pond, RobA. I also commend you for your patience - before I read this I thought I was waiting a long time for MY builder!

I've read that pond muck like you've got there is the best fertilizer in the world for pasture. You might get great results if you could get that pile spread on your wife's horse pasture.

Thanks for the kind words. I am very anxious to be able to see water in the pond again.

I knew there were lots of stunted bass and bluegill when I bought it. I thought the previous owner told me he put in crappie too (bad idea) but I never saw them or caught any. After a huge fish kill during the summer of 2005 there were 100's and 100's of dead fish floating: bass, bluegill, crappie and catfish. Some were sizable but most were small.

Before draining I called a local hatchery to see if he wanted to seine the pond but he said it was wrong time of the year and he was real busy with the trout side of his business. As it drained it was obvious that most of the fish had died during the earlier fish kill. There was only 1 sizable bass left and loads of smaller stunted fish. The contractor put some of them in the nearby creek but they probably didn't survive too long.

I plan to put in fatheads 1st and then bluegill and largemouth.

Good luck!

Checked out the pond over the weekend. Lots of dirt being moved. The dam was sealed up where the cut was made to install the new drainpipe. We've had no rain over the past week but the springs in the pond are adding some water already.

Rob,

Great project!! Thanks for posting the pictures and sharing all your information. It's really an ambitious project that will really improve the amount of enjoyment you get out of your land.

Any plans for some underwater structure? Pits, ridges or islands?

Eddie

Springs in the pond? I believe I would seal them immediately. Those things give and take depending on the water table. They can create a serious problem.

Eddie, I'm going to have the excavator add some ditches, small coves and rock piles made from some of the rocks/boulders he dug up while clearing some land for me. I am also adding some homemade structure. Started making that over the weekend. Here is a thread I started on those....

Dave, I have read about problems with springs on this site before. The excavator and I are OK with them since, for the most part, they have supported the pond since it was built about 60 years ago. As I understand it they never presented a problem and the water level never fluctuated greatly - except for when the muskrats came in....

So, I left work early today to check the progress of the renovation. The excavator and his son have been working hard and moved a lot of dirt/clay/muck. The excavator saw me and got off his dozer to talk with me. I sensed a problem. He went on to explain that the original pond was never built for depth and was really just a flooded area. He said as he was trying to dig deeper he was hitting some water - probably springs. He suspects that clay was used to cover up the springs and seal the pond basin. So he has been stripping off the layer of clay, digging down a few feet to deepen the pond and then putting the clay liner back. He did say that he wanted to be sure to seal off the springs so that the water does not leak back out. To be sure that there is sufficient water to fill the pond he also wants to pipe water form the adjacent creek into the pond.

Sound familiar Dave? You were absolutely right about spring in the pond. And to top it off I just read your post titled Pond Experience .Very timely and very true. I guess I assumed the springs in the pond were feeding the pond. Excavator said more than likely that it was fed by runoff and from springs outside the pond that also flowed into it.

In order to get sufficient depth (12-14 feet at the drainpipe) he needed to raise the height of the dam/banks on about 1/3 of the pond as well as dig deeper. Here is a picture of work so far. If you look where the drainpipe is you can see the raised dam. The pile to the left is the clay set aside to reseal the bottom.



Looks like the project will take a little longer but in the end it will be what I want.

It sounds like the guy knows what he is doing but I don't understand the part about stripping clay to go deeper and then putting it back. If he hits water, I don't understand his rationale. I must be missing something.

I like the part about raising the dam.

Since I have owned the pond the water has never been deeper than 5 or 6 feet. A large section of the pond had water that was 18 inches to 3 feet. Looking at the banks and the height of the top of the drainpipe is seemed obvious that the pond used to be deeper by about 3 feet. So I figured repairing the leaks etc would raise the water level close to where I would want it. Digging out a little more during the renovation would provide added depth and an overall better pond.

However, after the job started it was quickly obvious that the dam height (near drainpipe in picture) was lower than other parts of the pond bank. Using a laser level line the excavator found it was more than 3 feet lower. So, he raised the dam height to the same height as other parts of the pond bank. The other parts of the pond bank were not raised since, I believe, that is where the runoff enters the pond. Raising the height there would prevent water form entering the pond. So for added water depth the excavator was digging down. That's where the problem lies since as soon as he dug down he hit soil and rocks unsuitable to seal a pond bottom. And he also hit some springs. Apparently he has the same thoughts you do since he didn't want to leave the springs exposed in the pond bottom and after digging down for more depth he wants to seal everything up with clay.

As the excavator put it the original pond builder did seal up the pond bottom well but never built it for any kind of water depth.

I'm not sure if I'm explaining this correctly. Make sense? Hopefully this is the right thing to do.

Visited the pond today. Excavator had moved all of the muck to one corner of the empty pond during the past 1-1/2 weeks to dry out a bit before moving it to an open area (future pasture). I was amazed at how much there was. Here's a picture but it doesn't really tell the story.



The pile is about 3 feet tall and about 200 feet square. That over 4,000 cubic yards of material! I'll be using it to improve the soil in some fields as well as fill in some low spots.

Wow, Rob. What a project...I'm impressed and it seems your digger knows his digging. MORE PICS! Love it..

How did I miss this thread. Working out of town.

Nice job Rob !!! That will be a great pond. Just right to try your new structure ideas. Thanks for the report. What comes next ?

It looks like the original $100,000 may not be such a far fetched ballpark after all is said and done, I hope much less. It looks like it will be well worth whatever you pay. Y'all are doing a good job.
Do yu have pics of trees on the dam before? I saw some holes near the drain pipe, were they somehow plucked out, or how were they removed without tearing the dam down?

I'm hoping the total comes in waaaay less than $100k. The excavator said he is almost creating a whole new pond since the original was not built for depth and that is driving the cost up a litle more than expected.

I don't think I have any pictures of the trees on the dam. I'll look around. It was covered in all kinds of trees though: willow, maple, pine and some others. Most were 6-8" and some were 12-15". The beavers had taken some of them down in late 2005. The trees were taken out with a bulldozer and trackhoe. That was done in March 2006. I think the holes you see near the drain pipe may be new dirt he's been moving to that area.

I talked with the county Conservation District office the other day. Excavator wanted me to call them before he attempted to pipe water from the creek. It shouldn't be a problem since he's done it before with their blessing. They are going to meet later this week to discuss it.

I'm sure you know by being a veteran PBer to filter the water very well to prevent undesirables. You may even need to rotenone before stocking. It's going to be too nice to take a chance of messing it up.

Very cool, Rob. What do they say about good things and waiting?
I'm curious about a couple of the details on your drain pipe. I go back to the pic of the concrete anti-seep collar and it looks like a 90 degree fitting is about 10 - 20 feet forward (or aft?) of the collar. Does this 90 secure a stand pipe within the pond? I look at it and think perhaps not since it is so close to the collar.

I have read on this site about the dangers/drawbacks of using creek water in a pond so I was a little leary when the excavator mentioned it. When I told him my concerns he said that he uses a perforated pipe surrounded by wire and then surrounds that with crushed stone to filter it. In order to control any sediment he will also be putting rock in front of where the pipe enters the pond.

He's gotta plan...

There are 2 concrete antiseep collars - each about 6 feet on either side of the 90 degree fitting. The one in the picture is away from the pond. All 3 are buried in compacted clay. The 90 degree fitting is for the stand pipe within the pond. I think 8' of the stand pipe will wind up being covered in dirt and about 6 feet exposed to water/air. Make sense?