Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Types of fish to choose Fish for a 1/4 pond...

I'm working on getting a permit for a small pond, and due to restrictions in this area we can't disturb more than 1 acre total. So far, the design looks like the pond will be slightly over 1/4 acre. Sigh...

So, my question is - Is this large enough to raise some fish for food & fun naturally (without feeding them pellets)and if so, what kind of fish? I'm in South East PA.

yes it is large enough to be self sustaining there are many ponds in our area that are that size, and self sustaining. if you want fish for food i'd recomend chanel catfish they are easy to manage in a small pond and taste great but if you don't feed you won't be able to keep near as many fish in the pond. same thing with trout but trout need cool clear water and are a little more tough to raise unless you are feeding the pond with sufficent water flow to keep it cool it won't work. why don't you wan't to feed? and how are you going to keep the pond full are you feeding through a well a spring. what?

The pond is out the back and down the hill, and there is no electric there. I don't really want to be dependent on buying fish food. We have some nice compost piles with plenty of worms. Can I throw worms in from time to time or would that make relatively no difference? I don't want to heavily manage the pond.

We like catfish so that sounds like a good idea! What else could I stock with the cats? There are plenty of crayfish in the nearby streams and ponds. Would they be good fish food? (Plus they're tasty...)

Oops, I didn't answer your question about filling the pond. We might get lucky and hit a spring when we dig, but the plan is to fill the pond from runoff. There's more than 5 acres uphill that drains into the proposed site. I don't think we could successfully raise trout although that would be awesome if we could. I'd be happy with some decent sized bluegills or rockbass, or yellow perch. We like almost anything to eat. Bluegills are fun on the fly rod.

if you will be throwing in worms from time to time it will make near no difference if the pond is going to have a dam i would not recomend stocking crayfish they burrow and will cause leaks in the pond i made the mistake of stocking them and 1 week after i put them in, my dam had holes all through it and the little stinkers washed out the dam. if if you want another kind of fish in the pond you probably would want bluegill. when the bluegill spawn the chanel catfish will have some more forage small bluegill. maby an expert will have an input on this. but if you want good growth and alot of fish you'l have to feed. with just runoff and a possible spring i highly doudbt that it will suport trout

Hi Moses, and welcome to the forum!

For Northern ponds where fish harvest and low management needs are your goals, you could do the typical CC, BG and LMB route. Your CC and LMB could keep your BG populations in check, and with a little corrective nudge here or there you could achieve a relatively balanced fishery. These fish are easy to source and cheap, if not free. If you happen to become LMB heavy you can always cull and fillet them, too.

Crayfish can be detrimental to your pond, it depends on the species. If you have a stream or other ponds nearby you'll likely end up with that species of crayfish anyhow - they do have a tendency to travel and populate new waters. Might want to trap a few in a nearby stream and provide clear, up close photos of it top and underneath and their pincers. Cody should be able to ID it for you.

Keep us apprised of your construction project and we'll be here to help with your stocking strategy when the time comes.

Wow, thank you everyone for the fast responses. It's going to cost an arm and a leg (and maybe another arm) by the time I get done with the permits, engineering and actual excavation, so I wanted to make sure it was going to be worth it in the long run.

I'm thinking CC, BG and a few LMB might work. I asked the engineer to make the pond bigger if possible, but with a total 1 acre disturbance it's hard to do, even though we have plenty of acreage.

We have loads of rocks we can put in for structure. Is there any chance the CC will breed? We will definitely have snapping turtles, they lay their eggs in our driveway. We have box turtles and wood turtles also, but I don't think they will be a problem in a pond. There are painted turtles and mud turtles in the area also. Lots of frogs and salamanders too...

yes, and no chanel catfish will spawn in a pond but they need a cavity to nest in if you want them to spawn try puting in some 55 gallon drums with the open end pointed towards the deep end of the pond just make sure the 55 gallon drums weren't holding something toxic before you put them in the pond. bob lusk has some very facinating videos on raising channel catfish and other species i don't know how to make a link but maby someone knows how.

CC are cheap or free, I strongly suggest keeping them as a put and take fish species and supplementally stock from time to time to keep fillets in the kitchen. A reproducing population of CC in a small BOW can get out of balance in a hurry and become a management issue. If low maintenance is a concern, do NOT include CC spawning cavities, leave the pond relatively devoid of structure to enable your LMB to keep up with your BG reproduction. In Northern fisheries BG management is often a challenge, and the less structure for BG to escape predation the better so your LMB and CC can feast. If your BG are getting hammered too hard, you can always add some cedar trees down the road. That's my advice considering your goals.

Thanks for the advice. This forum is awesome. I've been reading here for a while, and last night I watched a bunch of Bob Lusk videos. I notice no one mentions Rock Bass. How about Yellow Perch? They taste better than bass.

On a related note, the engineer enlarged the pond to 1/3 acre, but said that's as big as we can go and still maintain less than 1 acre total disturbance. So I guess that's what I'm stuck with. Assuming we get the permit, we'll start digging as soon as it's dry enough. We've had a lot of rain lately so it's pretty swampy down there.

Rock Bass will compete with smaller LMB for food. YP will work, but due to their shape, make good forage food for LMB.

What about YP, BG mix with no bass? FHM to feed the perch? My goal is to raise some fish for the freezer, and to have some fun with the ultralight flyrod.

Why do you have to only disturb 1 acre? Is it the state, fed. or local laws? I know nothing about stocking numbers but you might do YP,HBG and FHM and if they stunt you could always put a few LMB in it. I love catching red eyes so if you have access to them I would stock them too.

I would consider a slightly largemouth bass heavy pond with bluegill and possibly channel catfish if you'd want to go that route (restocking occasionally). This will give you plenty of action with the flyrod (smallish bass) and bluegill will potentially be larger across the board for nice fillets. Add in the bonus catfish and bass and your freezer should be kept full.

Nothing will manage your BG population in this scenario and you'll have a pond full of skinny 4-5" BG in a few years. If you want BG you need an apex predator to manage their population. CC and LMB will work well.

You could try HBG and YP...eventually though the HBG will end up needing to be managed, too.

The 1 acre disturbance is PA state law as I understand. I need an E&S (Erosion and Sediment) Control Plan permit in addition to the pond permit. If I go over 1 acre, the permit process is even longer and more expensive. I'm too old for that, I want a pond before I'm 100!

I was thinking of stocking LMB, BG and some CC, but YP are much tastier. Although, it's been a while since I cooked a BG so maybe they're ok.

Do HBG breed?

Moses

YP can be stocked along with the LMB, CC and BG, but they will need some vegetation to survive predation from LMB and CC. They are fusiform fish and end up being utilized more often than BG as forage. You may have to supplementally stock YP - if you have a cheap and easy source it's not a bad scenario. If your LMB and CC populations aren't high, maybe your YP can make it on their own. Lot's of variables in this equation.

I agree, YP are by far the best tasting fish of the 4.

TJ-Could he add SMB to the HBG and YP combo to help keep the HBG under control?

MOSES ATWOOD-what I found out when I researced the two scenarios of HBG, YP, SMB -vs- LMB, BG is that usually the LMB, BG combo is easier to maintain and overall can produce more table fare.

This should really be looked into, because if they are not easily available, you would have to grow out small YP in cages to escape the older/larger LMB. This requires more management. This is at least my take on it, I could be wrong.

HBG are most certainly able to reproduce... the benefit comes from the initial stockers (F1's) severe male bias...90-95%.

I know you don't want to feed, but are you after a self-sustaining population of fish, or are you willing to periodically restock?

If you don't want to restock regularly, I like the LMB, BG, CC scenario.

If you're willing to replenish the fish as they're removed, I like HSB, HBG, and some CC...BUT in my opinion, both combos will benefit greatly from supplemental feeding.

Whatever you decide, I would probably add some RES to the mix.

Wow, so much to think about!

sprkplug - add RES to the mix? The local ponds around here do have a lot of snails and mussels, would the RES help with that? RES get big around here, which would be nice. I would like a self-sustaining population of fish, but I'm willing to restock if necessary.

fish n chips - There's a hatchery right near here, but I don't know if they sell YP, I'll have to look into that. Good point.

TJ - We have tons of rocks here which I was planning to put in the pond for structure,and I figured I would sink some tree branches but do YP prefer vegetation? Should I buy plants or will they find their way in on their own?

Since the pond is only going to be 1/3 acre I don't think I can put a whole lot of fish in there. If I stock too many fish, what's the downside? Stunted fish?

Make sure to find out the sizes of YP that are availble. You might need to restock larger ones, thats were it gets difficult.

Yes, stunted fish, and possible eradication of one or more of the species if not stocked to proper ratios. A feeding plan can let you add more fish.

What county is Green Lane in? Never heard of the town...

Green Lane is in two counties - Bucks and Montgomery. It's north of Philadelphia, south of Allentown. There are a lot of woods and ponds here. And lots of rocks...

Moses,

That may be a local statute that only affects small areas, such as the watershed where you are located. I would call the DEP and NRCS offices for clarification because pond construction is usually encouraged in PA.

Take a look at this publication. It also has contact information.

http://extension.psu.edu/courses/pond-management/lesson-1/management-of-fish-ponds-in-pennsylvania

In particular, look at page page 5 of that document.