Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Evaluating and adjusting fish populations Culling Pike

Hello All:
The pike gape size thread has caused me to think that I should bring a thought to the peanut gallery and see what you guys think.

So, little history, 7.5ac in northern illinois, varied depth, not enough structure, various species including LMB, several kinds of BG, warmouth, BC, and some others, no cats, a few bucketed WE and some old fat grass carp.

there was a severe overpopulation problem with the LMB being terribly small and all the same size. The bluegill were enormous, which was fun..but balance was all out of whack.

3-4 years ago a homeowner broke HOA rules and convinced someone to come in with a ridiculous amount of young NP. # stocked is unknown, reports range from 35 to 150, most accurate guess is about 75.

In the past few years I have personally removed about 10, dad has removed about 15-20 along with his neighbors. Many others may have been removed yet unreported. I will guess that at least 30, perhaps up to 50-60 have been taken out.

So they have grown progressively a few inches a year to this point, and last year's catch were all between 24-27.

I'm starting to think that perhaps a few pike in the pond aren't bad, since they can help manage the overpopulation issues. I know we'll never be certain that they have all been removed, but (call me crazy) I might want to leave a couple big ones in to cull some BG and LMB naturally.

So, were i to put a length limit on it, what would you suggest? I was going to say 27" is a valuable pike, and less than that can just die on the ice or be fed to the local coyotes and raccoon (they show up in the night and feast on any fish we leave on shore).

or...am I crazy, and should i just keep on with the pike killing spree?

I think it may be better the other way around. Pike over 27-30" should be removed, those under left. Pike too big can remove your quality fish you'd like to be catching and eating yourself. Obviously, too many pike of any size can be an issue as well. Let's hope they don't pull of a natural spawn on their own. However, with abundant LMB, they may eat all the newly born pike before they could get to any size.

If the pond is not weedy, recruitment from pike should not be a problem. Pike spawn and and the young of year pike thrive in weedy marshy areas.

If you think you have too many NP, then remove the smaller ones. They are overly agressive and will try to eat anything half their size. Fish injured by these aggressive NP will die whether they are eaten by the "slasher NP" or not.

NP that are approaching 30" and ones larger than that are more interested in smaller easy to swallow and digest prey. They are interested in the most food for the least effort. Trying to swallow and digest large prey is hard work.

My comments assume that you have an abundance of available prey for the large NP. If not, they will up size their prey preference rather than go hungry.

I think Dwight has a good concept for predation by pike.

hey everybody, thanks for your responses.

Dwight, if i understand your point correctly, having larger pike will not, necessarily, have an effect on the LMB or BG population, as they will selectively choose to not attack something that large (unless pressed to), but smaller "slasher" pike might attack them no matter what.

As far as I understood it (thanks to Dr Willis), 28 inches + will target fish the size of a stunted LMB, however, they may be unlikely to attack the BG, since they lack the fusiform shape and have the spiny ray as a defense.

Putting all of this information together, it seems like for the toothy buggers to have the biggest impact on the 2 populations I would like to lower (skinny LMB and subjectively large BG), I really need to strive for a balance of fish large enough to consider a skinny .75lb LMB a meal and "slasher" pike that are willing to chomp anything that moves.

So should I have a slot, then? Say, if it exists between 26-30 keep it, but the rest toss them out?

This pond does have weeds. They are often removed from beaches and swimming areas, and treated each year to knock them back, but in the deeper parts of the lake and around many shorelines they grow ridiculously thick. If I have adoption of YoY Pike, i will want to remove every small one i find.

Thanks again, everyone,
-Skinny

Remember that I speak from observation rather than research. The large Northern Pike may behave differently in varying pond situations.

Large NP will have an effect on most fish species because of the large amount of food they require. I think that most BG and those stunted LMB you discussed would be considered relatively small prey to a 30” plus NP.

We currently practice catch and release on all NP in our pond. NP under 26 inches would be removed but we haven’t seen one that small in years.

I don’t think NP spawn in our pond. We do see an occasional under 30” NP. It is a mystery where they come from. Maybe a large bird of prey grabs one out of the adjacent Rock River and accidently drops it in the pond. Like I said, a mystery…..

Interesting YOY NP aggression sidebar:
You can catch all the YOY NP you want angling for them without hooks. The river adjacent to our property has a small feeder creek that YOY NP frequent. All you do catch them is tie on a piece of surgical tubing, no hook. They will attack the surgical tubing and bite down hard. Wind them in; you will have to force their jaw open to get your “lure” back!

Observation of natural things is a form of research especially if the observations are repeated with similar results and then documented.

In my mixed population 3/4 acre pond when I had a pike 32"-38" (growth period of a few years) in there, I saw little recruitment of LMbass. After the pike died I soon begin to see more and more smaller bass (6"-10"). Before, during, and after the pike I did not see a noticable change in the bluegill population.

Interesting factoid about catching small YOY pike. What is the size range of YOY pike that bite the surgical tubing??

Thanks, Dwight, you are a gentleman and a scholar.

As far as spawning goes, I understand that pike spawn is impossible to predict and very spotty at most times. Given that they find weed beds and just spray and pray, so to speak, even if they found the right conditions to spawn, they might not actually do the deed.

Furthermore, since I have no idea the actual stocking numbers, i can't even say if i have both sexes in the pond. This is what happens when someone breaks your pond's rules....complete unpredictability.

When they were all over the pond and 20" long, they would bite anything, that is true. I had the best luck with buzzbaits, actually, although a good casting spoon was also a good move. Now that they have gotten bigger it is a little different. I got a few last year on rubber crawfish of all things, while site-fishing for bass.

They are really an impressive animal, now that i am remembering it. We could spot the bass from a mile away, and would cast into them from the rowboat. While drifting the craws around, letting the "pincers" flutter, all of a sudden you'd see a flash of light, and blam..you caught a pike.

The uber sneak-attack mega ambush thing is crazy. Like i said, you could see every other fish in a few yards of your lure, and somehow the pike figured out how to stay hidden until they thought it was lunchtime.

I sort of wish that me and the pike in dad's pond would have met under different circumstances. My pike killing spree has made me shed a tear for what used to be my favorite fish to target.

Then what little meat we get from them hits the frying pan alongside the BG and BC. that keeps it to a single tear.

Mike

8-12 inches, though I never actually measured one. They grow really fast the first month or two.

Slasher NP and uber sneak-attack mega ambush; this is Northern Pike.

I'd like to predict that pikes will spawn in your pond. I don't see any reasons why they shouldn't do that. Shallow, weedy areas and about 75 pikes (if only they all were one sex but I find it hard to believe) in - that would be no wonder at all.
They succesfully reproduce in countries with various climatic conditions.

In such case I'd try to catch all the pikes you can. There always will be others.

Dwight mentioned that large pikes eat only small fish. I don't agree to this. Yes, in the summer they eat much small fish but especially in spring and autumn they like bigger fish too. Why? Easy - why should it waste energy while catching 10 small minnows if the same result can be achieved with one larger fish? After spring spawn they feel weak and try to recover. They also eat much before winter and it's well known that big lures work well in autumn.

I think pike are eating larger fish when smaller preferred fish are scarce and similar to what Dwight mentioned. Dwight didn't say that big pike eat only small fish:
""NP that are approaching 30" and ones larger than that are more interested in smaller easy to swallow and digest prey. They are interested in the most food for the least effort. My comments assume that you have an abundance of available prey for the large NP. If not, they will up size their prey preference rather than go hungry.""
Researchers studying pike predation behavior also tend to agree with Dwight's conclusion. This pike predatory behavior is also reinforced by anglers regularly catching his large pike with small No8 hook red jigs fishing for panfish. Huge fish regularly eating a tiny jig during ice cover angling.

But I think as pike get larger the size of "small" prey also increases. Pike are also known to eat a lot of dead fish in winter, ice out conditions and probably at other times when dead fish are common. Opportunist feeding behavior.