Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Creating the food chain Newly stocked LMB going hungry?

Brief recap (moved in March, 2012): 2 acres, now aerated, 50+ year old pond, no algae and weed-free from Fluridone treatment in July, surrounded by trees and with good structure in the BOW (stumps, laydowns, etc.)

After a complete fish-kill in June, I've added about 500 BG of various sizes and species (locally caught & transfered and not recommended, I know), which includes about 200 CSB from TJ's pond a few weeks ago. I was hoping for a spawn of the larger BG stocked but don't think it happened.

On Sept 1st I stocked 100 6-8" LMB and 100 6-8" HSB. The HSB are pellet-fed and growing well, although the LMB don't seem to be growing at all. I've seen NO offspring of the BG since stocking them in Aug-Sept, and catch nothing in my cast net in all areas of the pond except the small LMB. Other than the LMB I stocked I have 2 LMB at nearly 3 lbs and maybe 15-20 at 10-15".

As I'm concerned there's not enough food for the LMB & growth, I'm considering stocking FHM and can get them from NE Lake management (Rob Hofpar) at $35 per 1000, if they're still available.

Does this seem to be feasible this time of year and how many FHM's would be recommended to add as my goal is to keep those LMB well-fed and growing?

Thanks in advance for any help/suggestions!

Keith

Are you managing for LMB, BG or a balanced fishery?

If for large BG, then you are on track (although with the large LMB in there you are still might not have enough BG in there). Otherwise, I think you are way, way light on forage for the LMB.

10# of forage = 1# LMB weight. Looking at the RW charts, BG are 0.1# up to 6.5" in length. 500 BG x .1 = 50#

According to Bill Cody, "In the fall new crop FHM are usually somewhat smaller 1.7-2.2" and 350-250/lb."

With approximately 28# of LMB over 3/4# and another 25# or so at 6"-8" PLUS the HSB, you are way, way light on forage for them.

Thanks Esshup, very interesting and wow, those poor babies are gonna starve

I'm managing more for LMB (along with the HSB) although nice to have some BG for the kids to catch, but mainly LMB.

I'd like to add more BG but with no more YOY until spring, and for budget reasons I wondered if the FHM would be a viable option or, golden shiners maybe?

I'm just wanting to get as much forage in there before winter sets in for the LMB.

Based on all that and knowing I'm way light on forage, what would you recommend?

Not fhm save ur coin and stock more mature BG next
Spring. Fhm are just plain eaten by bass. I wish u would have waited to stock the bass and/or stocked many less. It is tough to get ahead of the bass by building forage after the fact. GL try ur best to get bluegill as big as you can and stock away as budget allows.

Thanks Greg,

I was really hoping for at least one more spawn from the BG as I knew I wanted to get the LMB stocked yet this year. Probably my impatience taking over and I now completely understand the "tough to get ahead of building forage after the fact".

I realize the bass will eat up the FHM which would be expected, but if I don't get something in there, will they have enough to eat over the winter?

$100 could add 3000 FHM and even 5000 would be $175, probably not lasting until spring but it's at least something for them to eat. I will certainly add more mature BG in the spring as I can save up for that. I'm just thinking of forage for them until then.

Your better off catching all of the LMB out of there as you can now and keep the $175 in the bank for adult BG next year 'cause you're going to need all of them that you can afford and more.

In that 2 ac pond, you should be stocking between 2,000 and 6,000 BG - that's if the LMB were of a size so they wouldn't eat the stockers.......

Catch out all the LMB now that you can and you'll save yourself a LOT of $$ in the future. If you don't, I'll bet that most of the BG/Sunfish that you've stocked will be gone by Spring.

Stocking the FHM won't work because they are too small to do the LMB any good. They have to expend too much energy per "bite" for the fish to help.

Think of it this way. You are hungry. I said that I can give you a bowl of rice for lunch. Great you say, bring it on and I can get filled up in a short bit.

But, before you can eat it, here's the rules. I'm putting half of the bowl on this side of the room, and the other half on the other side of the room. Here's a set of chopsticks to use, and you can only pick up one grain of rice at a time to chew and swallow, AND you have to walk across the room for every grain of rice that you eat to get the next grain of rice.

How much weight do you think you'd gain by eating like that every day?

LMB need food that is from 1/4 to 1/3 their body length to put on weight. They cannot chase it all over the pond to catch it, nor can they swim all over the pond to find it without burning up more calories than the fish will provide.

To put one pound on each LMB that is in the pond, you'd need 292,500 FHM, and that's only if none were eaten by the HSB or any of the BG.

Take out as many LMB as you can until you get the forage base built up. I hate to be blunt, but if you don't you'll be chasing your tail to get more forage into the pond forever, your fishery will suffer, and you won't be happy with the pond.

Now, if you wanted a large BG/HSB fishery, then drop the FHM in and wait 'till Spring. Then put in 1,000 or so adult BG (bigger than any of the LMB can eat), and pour the feed to them. You'll have a large BG large HSB fishery in a couple of years.

Esshup, there's an explanation I can understand and I've already lost 5 lbs chasing down my rice dinner

Thank you for taking the time to spell that out.

I've tried reading about every post possible and with the help of the PB folks like yourself, got this old algae stricken, DW and coontail choked pond looking fantastic, healthy and aerated in just 6 months.

But I'm now realizing I jumped the gun on stocking the LMB and HSB before building an adequate forage base. Especially when my main goal was to have a healthy LMB pond.

There's so much to know and so much to learn, and so much advice to "add to the hopper" before jumping in.

Thanks again

Happy to help. I just don't like people repeating the same mistakes that I've done.....

Thanks Esshup!

As I'm kicking myself, why does that now seem so elementary and how could I have not known or ignored that (create and establish a forage base first...)? At a mental reversal, I'm now at the thinking of NOT wanting those 100 LMB I stocked to grow too quickly (now at 6-8"). I will do my best to remove the larger ones in the pond and maybe bite the bullet to get some bigger BG in there before the little ones grow up because once they do, as you stated, I can see myself on a constant chase of tryng to get a good forage base established.

The few bigger ones in there have been extremely hook-shy, so shy of trying to net them (I wish), I'm searching for their "can't do without" bait.

Anyone want to go fishing?

Keith you are going to be fine, IMO. Your BG probably did pull a spawn, this late Summer, but you aren't sampling properly to see the YOY. Those 200 CSBG will ALL spawn 2-3x next year, at up to 80,000 per nest. It may take a little for your LMB to catch up WR wise, but you'll get there you have a good foundation built.

You are welcome to all the adult GSH you want from my place, hard to get them this time of year, tho. However, they are the first to feed in the Spring and I can cast net them with relative ease. GSH addition to the forage base with LMB as primary predator isn't a bad idea.

Try to resist the urge to stock FHM - it's a fruitless gesture. You should have spent that $ on Grass Shrimp! Call me anytime if you need to talk through things. It's your money and pond, but that's my advice.

Thanks TJ and I've written off the idea of FHM. I'll give you a shout.

All

We're going to stock some Crays and GSH from my pond this Fall yet to provide some peace of mind over the winter months for Keith.

Information overload!

I love the passion PB and pond maintenance creates. It awesome!

Y'all are too kind!

You should've really stocked some smaller forage to get your bass off and growing. The general consensus is that you should stock minnows, shiners, and crayfish and let them build up a pretty solid population before you put bass into the pond.

This way the bass will be able to feast and grow to a size where they can effectively hunt and eat bluegill.

You're not alone in hitting a bump in the road in your stocking. Had I stocked a pond before coming here I would have failed miserably. Maybe I would have gotten lucky, but I had no idea all of the available forage items available to make a pond a success.

Greatwhite, how I wish I could turn back the clock! Seeing Kegger's post in the image gallery of his 1-2" stocked LMB 5 months ago and where they are now, it seems to be a true testament to having an established forage base prior to stocking.

I may have more forage in there than I think, but based upon what I'm seeing and sampling (yet probably not effectively) it doesn't seem to be there.

Although, I haven't lost faith due to the great people on PB that have offered so much help and advice!