Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Raising Forage and Bait Question about forage overpopulation???

Hypothetically speaking:

You build a pond, you create all of the proper cover and spawning sights for your forage species.

Now you're ready to stock your forage.

Let's say that you stock:
Fathead Minnows
Golden Shiners
Lake Chubsuckers
Mississippi Grass Shrimp
Papershell Crayfish

If you left the pond set just like that for two years do you think that there could be a negative effect?

Could the forage overpopulate and start to decline in number?

Would the population just hit an equilibrium point where only the amount of forage that could survive in the pond would survive?

Has anyone ever tried this?

Thanks for the input.

It depends on the size of the pond, stocking rates, and location (south vs. north). Several members have gone with a minimal approach a dozen crayfish, 5 lb of FHM and GS and just let them set for awhile to and that has worked successfully.

Yes that can happen both with and without Lepomis (BG ,PS , GSF etc).

It is called carrying capacity (sometimes standing stock)and exists for all waters. There are hundreds if not thousands of studies on the topic and it is discussed at this thread from the archives.

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=92440#Post92440 Carrying Capacity


http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=92492#Post92492 Population size and analysis

In an unpopulated water most species will ASAP try to fill it with their kind. That time period varies somewhat but from comments here it is , depending on species , from 18-24 mths in the south to 2 - 3.5 yrs up north. From that point on no matter the species you are managing the division of the % and sizes of the fish to keep ( balance or unbalance)or meet your goals. It is one of the most basic principals of fisheries mgt.

Stocking at a reduced rate and letting them grow and fill the pond is fine, but if a few fish that are not on the management plan get into the pond, they will prosper too, and screw up the management plans. I prefer to stock lots of forage and give it less than a year to populate, then stock with predators. I've seen predators target "different" fish, so I think the "strangers" will be looked at differently than the common forage fish in the pond (that's providing that the predators are large enough to prey on the unwanted species).

I'm putting a lot of thought into this because I want to establish populations of difficult to source forage in my pond.

I specifically want papershell crayfish, but its hard to find a few hundred pounds of them to stock. Does anyone have any thoughts about how quickly 100 crayfish turn into a pond full without predators present?

Also, there is the lake chubsucker issue. Lets say you have a five acre pond. Ideally, I'd like to put at least 2500 lake chubsuckers in there to kick things off. As we all know, that is a virtual impossibility. However, if I could catch a few hundred of them and give them a huge head start then it was my thought that they would take care my numbers issue on their own.

I would think there could be advantages to letting your forage base grow for 2 years even if they don't create more pure numbers. For instance, if you want golden shiners, they are a year larger and you have a better chance at having large enough individuals to survive predation from rapidly growing bass.

If I were considering developing a trophy bass fishery, and were in no rush at all, I might consider gsh, lcs, and crayfish in year one, and then adding the fathers in year two. When do you guys think would be the best time to add the red ear for snail control and the bluegill?

It's been my experience with LCS that they are fairly prolific. The amount of young my LCS produced this year was impressive. I only stocked the 0.34 acre pond with 27 2" fish in '09. Took them 2 years to begin maturing, with their first spawn in '11. This spring they really pulled off a huge spawn. I have thousands of LCS now. Without predation, most species will explode in numbers. I only stocked between 50-100 of all the forage species I have and now have 1,000's of all. I actually only stocked 17 banded killifish and now have 1,000's of them. I am to the point now where my forage fish would be starting to stunt if I hadn't started pelleted feeding them.

When the predators go in next year, they'll be well fed and the numbers will plummet in short time.

CJBS2003, how big are your largest lcs now?

@ deadwood

The further south you go the bigger they get.

Up here you will be lucky to see a seven incher.

My buddy in Texas has them at over a foot so he claims. I don't think he has a reason to lie about it, but I haven't seen them for myself.

I would say 10" with most in the 6"-8" range. At least for the original stockers. The first ones to be spawned in my pond last year are around 4" and the ones from this year are 2"-3".

Any experience yet with how they do in a pond/lake with LMB? If a major selling point is that LCS reach a large enough size to be useful as a forage for trophy bass, do a substantial number actually make it to larger sizes when living in an environment with LMB, or do they tend to get weeded out over time like GSH?

In VA the LCS may get a little larger and close to 8"-11". Greg Grimes is our southeast expert on LCS in small lakes where LCS can get larger and abundant. Population structure of LCS will have a lot to do with quality and complexity of habitat. greg may chime in here but I'm not sure tht he can add anymore information that he has already provided in older topics.

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=166538&page=2
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=17852
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=211609&page=1

They are just like any other forage. If you can provide three things for them they will be successful.

Number one, the need plenty of places to spawn.

Number two, they need enough cover to survive the three seasons that it takes for them to mature into spawning adults.

Number three, they need food.

All of these things can be provided with the proper type and quantity of vegetation in your pond. Obviously, keeping your bass populations in check is going to help any forage source.

Some people claim that too much cover in your pond makes for hungry bass. I believe that too many bass in your pond make for hungry bass LOL. If you don't keep your bass numbers down they will eventually destroy all of your forage.

I won't be stocking LMB with them. I can catch LMB anywhere, so LMB aren't going in the pond. If I am able to seine some up next year, I will be transferring some to a friend's pond which has LMB. So we may find out if I can get some to take hold. Hoping by transferring some larger adults, I can get them to establish in his pond.