Pond Boss Forums GENERAL QUESTIONS Property Projects & Construction Wells going dry

Just heard of 6 residential wells going dry about 5 miles from my farm. I hit water at 170, went another 70 feet just to be safe for times like these, and I hope I am. I feel guilty for some reason that I've been pumping 24/7 for the last 45-50 days. We've had under .20" of precipitation in the last 60 days and at least 2 weeks over 100...I had no choice but to pump, or lose my ponds.

Lusk has often intimated that as water gets scarce our interests as pond owners are going to be threatened, and we need to pay attention and stick together. Our rights rank below ranchers, farmers, and homeowners who need it to survive. I guess that makes sense - I'm technically a "recreational user" as a pond owner, and I'll be the first to relinquish rights on that list. That's why I registered my ponds/farm with the state of Nebraska as a fish hatchery this Spring - hoping it would protect my water rights in the future. Not sure it will fully protect me, but will surely provide more protection than I had as a "recreational" user and hopefully group me with farmers and ranchers.

I hope these recent cooler temps will help my main pond fill. Seems I'm only keeping up with evaporation now...maybe gaining an inch every 3 days, and I'm down four feet and the water is getting pretty dark - lowest visibility since it was first excavated. It's pretty nutrient rich and the blooms are getting pretty frequent and dense which is a first for my ponds. Getting me on edge, so I'm done feeding until I gain at least another foot through irrigation or some precipitation just to sleep better at night.

Any other wells going dry out there?

Thats something to think about! How do you go about listing your pond as a hatchery?

I have a good well right beside the HBG pond, but I won't use it just for that reason. I've poured a lot of work and finances into that pond, but I just can't justify taking the chance that my actions would cause trouble for my neighbors, when my ponds are just a hobby.

Water is like air, it doesn't stop at my property line, it's a resource shared by everyone. I don't believe that sinking a well on my property gives me unlimited access to the communal water table below. After all, polluting that same water table is a very good way to incur the wrath of governmental entities, due to the impact such an action would have on the surrounding area. If I pump enough out to contribute to someone else's well going dry, would that qualify as impacting their access to the water?

I'm sure that there are probably enough loopholes, and numerous interpretations of the various laws so that I would probably not be held accountable in court for my actions, but I wouldn't be able to escape my conscience. I would still know, and still feel at least partially responsible.

Not trying to stir the pot, as I realize such an opinion is probably not very popular during times such as these. It is after all, just one man's opinion, and most certainly not meant to be critical or condemning in any way.

TJ, I hope you get some rain soon... we've had 1.5" so far this month, and it was wonderful. Certainly not enough to impact our ponds, or the water table, but it still FELT good....

I ran my well pretty hard this first dry year.. I figured if I can make it through this year with running it more than normal I shouldn't have a problem ever..

I've heard about several folks in my area that have had wells run dry this year - at least a couple that had never had that happen before.

So far I haven't done any pumping - both of my ponds are fairly deep so I'm hoping that everything just holds out until the rain comes.

sprkplug, I believe Indiana has something on the law books that says if you have the capacity to pump more than 70gpm from a well on your property (I don't know if there is an acreage assigned to the property size) and your neighbors well goes dry, then you have to furnish them with water until the well goes "wet" again.

I found the reg.

From the Indiana DNR:

What is a high-capacity water well?

A high-capacity well is a water well capable of pumping at least 100,000 gallons of ground water per day (70 gallons per minute), regardless of how much water is actually pumped. A well with this much pumping capacity would also be classified as a significant water withdrawal facility (SWWF). SWWFs must be registered with the DNR Division of Water (at no cost), and water withdrawals from them must be reported annually.


Do I have to get a permit from a state agency to install a high-capacity water well?

No permit is required for a high-capacity water well; however, it may be necessary to register the well as a significant water withdrawal facility (SWWF). A SWWF includes any combination of wells, surface water intakes, and pumping apparatus that supply, or can supply, at least 100,000 gallons of water per day to a common collection or distribution point. A person who owns such a combination must register those facilities as a SWWF with the DNR Division of Water. The facility must be registered within three months after it is completed. For more information, consult the Non-rule Policy Document, Registration of Significant Water Withdrawal Facilities.


Registration forms for significant water withdrawal facilities, including general instructions, are available online-State Form 20094 (R3/8-98).

My neighbor uses a lot of water. If he causes my water well to go dry, can I do anything about it?

State statute IC 14-25-4 is known informally as the "water rights law." It protects owners of most small-capacity water wells from significant ground water withdrawal facilities. The law defines a significant ground water withdrawal facility as "the ground water withdrawal facility of a person that, in the aggregate from all sources and by all methods, has the capability of withdrawing at least one hundred thousand (100,000) gallons of ground water in one (1) day." One hundred thousand gallons per day equals 70 gallons per minute. High-capacity ground water users may be irrigators, public water supply operators, or quarries. To be protected from a nearby significant ground water withdrawal facility, a small-capacity well must satisfy one of the following criteria:


■The well must be a properly functioning domestic well drilled prior to January 1, 1986.

■If completed after December 31, 1985, the well must be constructed in accordance with rules set forth in 312 IAC 12 Water Well Drilling and Ground Water. These rules require certain minimum pump depths in domestic wells, and they specify how much of the source aquifer must be penetrated.

Indiana law does not protect one small-capacity well owner from another small-capacity well owner.
If your well no longer furnishes its normal supply of water, and if you suspect that the well is being affected by a nearby high-capacity ground water user, submit a written complaint to the director of the Indiana Department of Natural Resources (address below). The DNR Division of Water will make an on-site investigation. If the investigation finds evidence that nearby high-capacity pumping has substantially lowered the water level in your small-capacity well, and your well is protected by statute IC 14-25-4, the high-capacity user can be declared liable and may be required to provide you with an alternate water supply.


Send complaint letters to:

Director
Indiana Department of Natural Resources
402 W. Washington Street, Room W256
Indianapolis, Indiana 46204


If you have questions about IC 14-25-4 or 312 IAC 12, contact the Division of Water, Water Rights & Use Section (317-232-4160 or toll free 877-928-3755).

Good stuff Scott and it was what my understanding was too.

So in a nutshell: low capacity well user (under 70 gpm per day) is not responsible for any other wells going dry.

High capacity (over 70 gpm per day) is.

Recently the Farm Bureau defeated a bill that would have given jurisdiction of well usage within 2 miles of any city limits.

It's coming if we continue to have drought conditions. Look for more bills to appear.

Thanks Scott. It would seem that like most things of a legal, or Biblical nature, there appears to be much room for personal interpretation. The way I understand it, the definition of a high capacity well is derived from the hardware, or equipment needed to actually move that 70 gpm, NOT the volume of the aquifer itself.

My neighbors across the road have lived on the same piece of ground for over 50 years. Their well is only 60' deep. Should it be deeper? Probably, but that's never going to happen. If the aquifer they pull from can sustain a 25 gpm draw, what happens if I start pumping 40 gpm into my pond? I would be well within my rights to do so, apparently free from any possibility of legal action. However, that would mean little to that elderly couple whose well was no longer in contact with the water table. I might not sleep too well after that.

I'm not preaching, advocating, or trying to cop some holier-than-thou attitude. Everyone must do what they feel is right. Myself, I keep remembering something my grandmother used to say when I was young, something I've said here before: "Child, just because you CAN do something doesn't always mean you SHOULD." Thanks Grandma.

All based on the rule of capture from english common law. The rule of capture is now subject to state regulation under certain situations to avoid waste and protect correlative rights. The rule of capture came from the taking of wild animals at common law - you did not own them as they could run away and leave your property but you had the right to capture (kill) them while on your land. Compare to water or oil/gas etc. If you can capture it on your land you own it subject to regulation for the protection of correlative rights and to avoid waste. Your neighbor's protection is his right to capture his own water etc. also subject to regulation.

Thanks for your input Ewest, I was wondering what your take on the situation would be. I understand the legal aspect, it's the moral obligation that doesn't fit the equation....

Sprkplug, I try to live everyday by treating others the way I expect to be treated. for instance, if I borrow something of yours, I return it in as good or better condition (filled gas tank, etc.)

That may not get me rich, but it lets me sleep at night.

I hear you Scott, and I agree. It would be easier living in a black and white world, but those darn shades of grey keep getting in the way.

SP, my hats off to you for your attitude, wish more people were as considerate. I'll bet about 80-85% of the folks reading this thread admire your position. I wonder if living in FREEDOM, INDIANA has anything to do with your coolness. Go Hoosiers!!! Bob-O

Thanks Bob. I don't pretend to have all the answers, or even some of the answers...my basket runneth over with questions however...hopefully, answers are a by-product of the aging process!

They have some 70 gpm stuff up here, but only if you pump 70gpm or more for 30 consecutive days. Then you you have to report water usage, along with a hundred bucks. There is a work around to the 100.00 fee. Pretty much sure it is only for commercial and industrial use, including farms.

I know the past administration was beating up fish farms pretty good on water usage, just to make a buck. Pretty hard not to hit water in MI.

Can you destroy water, so it no longer exists?

Perhaps you can't destroy it, but I'll bet it can be rendered unfit for human use. If all the water that ever existed on the planet is still here, is it distributed the same? As my ponds evaporate, their water vapor falls somewhere as rain, so perhaps someone somewhere benefits from my lower water levels. Unfortunately, although that water still exists, it is no longer usable to me, as it is now too far away to do me any good. Therein lies the rub, especially in a drought year. The water is still here, planet-wise, but it's moved...

And until we get enough rain to replenish our groundwater, our local supply will continue to diminish.

In defense of those operating wells....Protecting significant investments, not to mention an aquaculture operation or other professional endeavors [farming, ranching], is a morally and of course legally legitimate use of water in my opinion. In my case I elected to dedicate the research and hard earned capital necessary 5 years ago to punch deeply for extreme conditions such as these. None of my neighbors wells have gone dry, if it happens, I'll have to reconsider if it's worth the risk to lose everything so my neighbors can take a shower. Would ranchers or farmers make the same considerations? I don't know...hard to believe my 49 GPM is making much of any impact when we're surrounded by 1500 GPM wells dedicated to center pivots watering nearly dead soybeans and corn. My closest neighbor is a half mile away, I know I'm not impacting their water supply, anyhow. Losing thousands of dollars worth of fish isn't something I want to even briefly consider! What are 100 HSB over 23" and 200 14"+ SMB worth, anyhow? I spent 20k on my well system to ensure I had water - many folks around here are spending money now to go deeper to ensure they have water, too. If I ran out of water my first call would be to my well driller and ask for an additional 100 feet, not to ask others to quit using water. That's my take, anyhow.

Scott, didn't you mention you've been pumping your well nonstop in that Indiana drought for quite some time now just to keep even not unlike me? Wondering your position on recreational use of water during times like these? Sounds like we're in the same camp, no?

TJ, yes, same camp. I'm on a huge aquafier, and so are the wells around me. I can get 100 gpm from a 4" well if I bump the pump size. If I counted the center pivot irrigation systems in a mile radius from my house and pond I'd run out of fingers and toes. My well is only 66' down, and when it was dug the static water level was 13' below ground level.

I think Cecil probably has no choice but to pump nonstop too if he's still raising his prized Brown and Brook trout. For aquaculturists there is no choice - pump or lose the business.

Certainly, this is a contentious topic. I appreciate the fact that we are able to discuss it intelligently and calmly, but this being PondBoss, we don't like to consider anything that may negatively impact our ponds, or our fish. I feel the same way, as I'm sure everyone here does also. Possibly, there are those who have been reading this thread just hoping that it goes away...quickly. I understand, and in fact there's not much to debate. It is, after all, legal to pump water into one's pond. That's the bottom line...what happens from here on out should be decided individually, based on conscience.

I would like to expand on something I said earlier, however. I mentioned the elderly couple across the road, with the shallow well. These folks have little in the way of resources. Drilling deeper to obtain the water is out of the question. Their well is hand dug, and income is non-existent for them. I wish I could bring the PB community here, to see how these folks live. It will never mean anything unless you can see it. I mentioned in a recent thread about the manner in which some members of my extended family survive. Throwing money at a troubling problem is not an option, and it never will be.

TJ referred to his pond/fish as an investment. I couldn't agree more, having such an investment myself. But like any investment, it carries risks. The lengths one is prepared to go to, to mitigate such risks is a personal choice. If my livelihood depended on my fish, then certainly I might reconsider my position. But as it stands now, my fish are a recreational investment...and I'm not willing to risk impacting my neighbors livelihood. I'm sure that the circumstances are different from place-to-place, which is why I believe that everyone should decide for him/herself.

This drought has caused me to re-think my Landscaping options for next year. Between the watering, weed killer, fertilizer and mowing, pea gravel, boulders and decorative cactus are looking better. I like a nice green lawn as much as the next guy, but, I prefer to spend my time and money (water) on my pond. I have yet to find a recipe for tasty fescue grass.

The post was originally intended to spark some dialogue regarding the importance of water as a resource and how it will impact all of us in the future, especially the recreational users as they likely fall on the bottom of the priority list. Lusk routinely expresses concern how this will impact the pond management industry, and our collective interests into which we've poured significant resources. It was never my intent for this to become an ethical debate on whether we should be utlizing irrigation to protect our interests or aquaculure businesses, but these things happen - no big deal. IMO - I don't believe we collectively understand enough about the nature of aquafers to reliably ascertain the impact our water use has on others, either. Brief example - when drilling test holes for my wells 5 years ago the distance of 300 feet on my farm made a huge difference in the availability/volume of water. One hole was 20, the other was nearly 50. When we found 50, I decided to buy the land and begin my pond projects. Wells may run dry without any influence of neighbors water use as this example suggests it's a very finite area one's well pumps from. I don't believe I'm sucking groundwater from acreages a half mile away...if they run dry, it's not through my influence, it has everything to do with the nature of their own highly localized water source. I'm not trying to defend the use of irrigation during times of drought, merely raising the point that I don't believe our use of water necessarily effects wells that surround us in as large an area we might have originally believed. Until we understand the nature of aquafers and wells to a better degree I think we're prematurely making moral/ethical judgements, which again I never intended the post to assume that tone.

That said, I fully appreciate, respect and SHARE everyone's consideration for their neighbors well being. I remove dozens of trashbags of litter along the roads around my neighbors ponds, and have stocked their fisheries for free and lend all the pond mangement advice I can pro bono. It's the right thing to do! Also agree water is a shared resource, and in times of short supply should probably be used only to keep fish alive and businesses going. It's a founding principle of our Pond Boss community - educating us to become responsible stewards of the land and water.

IMO no problems so far on this topic. However I caution anyone from making and expressing moral judgments about someone else's legally allowable use. The law after all is society’s judgment on what is required of our behavior.

I fully agree that the nature of aquifers is not understood conclusively. I also think that geography, or location will impact specific aquifers. I have no idea how deep the well at my pond is, as it was drilled long ago. However, I do know the one here at the shop went down 96'. The driller was amazed that it was able to supply 25 gpm, as he claimed that 10-15 gpm was very good for my area. Based on his remarks, it would seem that very little action would be required to impact such a well. Again, that's just my area. I read on here of guys routinely getting 50 gpm, or even more, so I'm sure that different areas can supply varying amounts before any impact might be felt. MIGHT be felt. Might not. That's the unknown variable.....

My only reason for commenting on this thread was due to TJ's remarks about feeling a little guilty. I also didn't intend to engage in a debate over morality, I only wanted to show that I too have felt the same way as he does, or did.




Ewest, I understand and appreciate your position, but I must respectfully disagree. Laws get changed all the time, and I believe that making and expressing moral judgements is a primary tool by which such change is accomplished. Standing up for what you feel is right is a moral, albeit sometimes emotional, obligation. That doesn't mean it's always politically correct, or popular, or easy. But sometimes it's necessary.

Before the ropes and pitchforks come out, let me say that I'm not advocating for change in the way the water laws are currently written. I have stated before in this thread that I think everybody's circumstances are different, and should be evaluated one on one.
Just because I decide not to pump, doesn't mean that I think everyone should follow my example. If you're operating within the law, then you should do what you think is right. That's how I see it.