Pond Boss Forums GENERAL QUESTIONS Property Projects & Construction Fruit tree options & vendors

The vast majority of our property is hardwoods. We have an area we call the meadow that is about 1.75 ac and we keep it mowed down. It's a short walk thru the woods from our gar/apt to get to the meadow.
I would like to plant a few fruit trees in the meadow; maybe no more than a couple dozen or so. I know a few of them would be apple, but unsure of the rest. Who has practical experience with fruit trees? What considerations should be made when considering the best fruit types or hybrids? Who is a good source for seedling stock?

I am assuming that these are for your consumption, correct?

First the deer are going to destroy them unless they are caged. This can be done individually or fence in the complete area. I do mine individually (60 trees in two orchards). For the fence I use 4' or 5' tall 2x4 welded fencing and 12' for each tree. I use 2 metal t post and make a circle out of the fencing around the tree, roughly 5' diameter.

Before we talk varieties we need to discuss how big you would like the trees to be, this will go a long way in determining the rootstock.

Varieties, get the ones the you like. Lots of folks love Honeycrisp, I don't have any yet but am enjoying me liberties and goldrush. The rest of my orchard isn't producing much yet. A lot of fruit trees need another tree/variety to pollinate it, so keep this in mind. Crab apple trees are great pollinates.

I get all of my apple trees from Century Farm Orchards, great trees, great advice/help, and reasonable prices.

If you haven't alread, check out the QDMA Forum in the Native Habitat section. Tons of info and info that pertains to your area, including tree vendors.

What are your goals for the trees. Hunting, personal consumption? I am not smart enough to help but I am up to 45 fruit trees planted on the property now (plums, pears, crabs, cherry, apples). If only they would grow faster, not atttract insects, avoid frosting off, hold blossoms in high winds, and not be soooo darn tastey to every animal in the woods

Good start; thanks guyz.
This would be for personal consumption. That's why I'm thinkin' that 2 dozen might even be substantial overkill. Hunting is not a player. Regarding size, I have plenty of room and wouldn't mind a few big ol' apple trees...but no, not 2 dozen big ol' apple trees. A mix of apple, maybe plum, cherry sounds kinda cool...we have a gazillion wild cherries, but nothing like Bings.
In the end, I could see just 4 or 5 apple trees, but wanted to get opinions.

Another thing to remember the bigger the root stock lets the tree get the longer it takes the tree to produce fruit. I have 5 leaf (5 years since planted) trees that haven't even blossomed yet. Most likely it will be another 3 to 5 years before they do. Then I have M.111 root stock trees that are 3 and 4 leaf trees and have a lot of apples on them (I been watering the heck out of them). So it is all a balancing act, or as been say here before it all depends

I'll throw this out there: I've had better luck with my hybrid Bluegill than I have with hybrid (dwarf) fruit trees.

Part of the problem lies with me. Our dwarf trees sometimes produce sooo much fruit that they become heavy, and we've had two blow over, roots and all. That might not have happened had I thinned the fruit like I should have. Still, they appear to me to be shallower rooted than our full size trees, possibly due to the planting requirements required of hybrids.

If you decide on a hybrid tree, they will tell you to be sure to keep the graft union above ground level when planting, so you don't lose the benefit of the grafted on rootstock. The tree can sprout another set of roots at the union, rendering the hybrid rootstock useless.

lassig - 60 fruit trees! Awesome! Watering 60 fruit trees this year would almost be a full time job.

I've been planting 5 trees/year over the last 9 years and I am just wore out on them. The weather the last two springs has killed me. This year I might get a small bucket of Whitney crabapples and thats it.

...which now brings me to management responsibility.
Water, water, water...? Like, all the time? I thought trees like apple trees are fairly drought resistant once they become established.
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Fruit removal...? What happens if I completely pass on removing fruit for a season? I assume a "sweet-seeking-insect" mess. What else?

A lot of this goes back to root stock, if you use a dwarf root stock the tree needs to be supported. As drought tolerance will go back to root stock.

How tall of a tree to you want 10',15' 25', full size? this is determine by rootstock. I want free standing trees (no support) and about 25' tall so I went with M.111 root stock. M.111 is fairly drought tolerant.

Of my 60 trees I am water 40 of them and letting 20 fend for themself (2 separate orchards). Of the 40, 16 where just planted this year. The 40 are doing great since I haul 200+ gallons of water to them and water 4 trees with it. I do this once in the morning and evening, so I get 8 trees done per day. The orchard is on a hill so I have 4 hoses and use gravity to do its thing.

Of the 20 tress I am not watering only one of them is looking really bad and may not make it, so far.

I don't normally water it is the drought that is making it do it this year, have never done it before.

My Experience:
I don't water my trees at all but my soil (loam/peat)is almost perfect for growing. It also holds moisture real well. As far as watering goes it really depends on, your soil type, the weather conditions for the year planted and the two consecutive years after planting. Thats what the experts have told me.

Its a tight rope the first couple three years...water too much and the roots remain shallow and the tree will strugle or die during dry years...water to little and the tree dies.

Herbicides/Insecticides for fruit trees ...a whole forum could be built on those topics. I use mostly organic methods but most of my trees are for wildlife.

I am very fortunate to have a great tree nusery and an experienced fruit tree grower very close to my property. If you can find one next to you it is worth the premium that you will pay for the trees, especially if you are only planting 6-12 trees. IMHO

Potted vs. Bare Root. Differing opinions on this one. In my experience my loss on bare root tree's 1 in 4. Loses on potted, zero. I think with good stock a potted plant, although more expensive, gives you a better chance for establishing the tree. Some will argue this for sure.


Ok...I will stop typing now

OK counterpoint, 10 potted trees, lost 1, 51 bareroot trees lost 0, so far. I favor bareroot since I get my trees from NC and only reasonable way to ship.

How about planting part of the field in blueberries, raspberries, etc...

Kids love them

We have fig trees, avocados, citrus, mayhaws, strawberry guava, blueberries, raspberries

I realize our climates are different

Just for us and the animals
Still young plantings but doing well
I underestimated the maintenance to be honest

interesting thought; thx
I do like the blueberry idea....even strawberries. I think they are ok in the midwest climate. What's the scare on maint? Are they invasive...will they creep and take over?

Strawberries do like a sandy soil and midwestern climate, but they are a lot of work to keep weed free and need watered to get established. In my experience anyway, we had a 2acre patch when I was a kid and I still have nightmares...
Oh, and they will shoot runners, but by no means will they "take over" a large area they werent planted in. And the typical plant will usually only produce well for 4-6 years.

Don't forget at least two northern pecan trees, Brettski. Nolin River Nut Tree Nursery in Upton, Kentucky, ships fine quality bareroot trees with excellent root systems. Their website offers good information on nut tree varieties.

They don't excel at communicating and might not even acknowledge your order, but you'll get the trees you want.

Where in Illinois are you? If you're near the Missouri side you could give Roland Lenzenhuber a call. He's in Jonesburg, MO. Our family has done business with him for over 25 years. He's as honest and hardworking as they come.

With maintenance I was more referring to the
More finicky citrus, in addition to the heat and humidity
That fungal dse and craploads of insects love

I think blueberries would do well where your at and while not
Maintenance free are relatively easy

Blueberries like acidic soil, with a pH somewhere around 4-5. If you can grow Azaleas and Rhododendrons, you can probably grow Blueberries.

For relatively insect and blemish free apples you need to spray them with volk oil and a fungacide when the buds are just starting to green up and are roughly 1/4" long.

Once fruit is set spray after every rainstorm.

Potted plants of any size are not an option for me, bare root is the way to go. I've used both Starke Brothers and Miller Nursery, and I prefer to go with Starke Bros. Supreme trees when available in size/variety that I want.

Without hunting to reduce the deer herd, caging is a MUST. First year, watering at least 1x week is a must as well if you want to get the trees off to a good start. You need to pick varaties that will pollinate each other, and make a chart so you can figure out what trees will give you fresh fruit from late Aug thru first frost.

Spraying around the trees in a 3'-5' diameter circle with round-up will work wonders to keep the trees growing fast.

With bare root stock, the quicker you get them in the ground, the better. I try to plant the same day that they arrive.

Did I say cages were a must?

I'm in the south and the "rabbit eye varieties are the most common; tifblue, premier, powderblue, etc. These varieties require very little maintenance. I never apply fungicide and only apply pesticide (malathion) twice in the spring after the berries have set to ward off cranberry fruitworms. Birds (bluejays, cardinals, woodpeckers) are the real issue after the berries ripen. They will attract some desirable birds like quail and a few turkeys who seem to like the berries that fall off and probably have worms inside. Deer seem to visit as we see tracks but don't seem to eat the plants or berries; I can't say the same for the other fruit trees we have like peach, apple, plum, nectarine, and figs. They do recommend keeping grass away for the base of the blueberry plants for the first few years to ensure better growth. Also, pick off the flowers the first year to help plant growth.

We have a couple of oriental persimmon trees in different varieties that are (fuyu and suruga). I perform no maintenance on these trees except to pick off excess fruit because they will break branches in good years. The leaves are deep green and the fruit turns orange early in the fall then stay on even when the trees are bare. I just looked on-line and they don't seem to grow Illinios, though.

Also, I agree with the negative assessment on the "dwarf" varieties. The trees do stay small but fruit set is very limited and fruit quality is poor, IMO.

I use Wafler Farms in Wolcott, NY. We run a small apple tree farm here - I've planted competitive tree with theirs and theirs almost always fruit sooner. The main guy there - Bill Pitts - is a hunter too. They create "Deer Packs" which he puts together 10 trees of various ripening periods so the deer come early and stay late in the year.

They only bareroot - better success and they're about $10+ a pop unless you order a bunch. I planted 70 from them this year and they've all survived our dry summer.

I belive it's waflernursery.com

Cool, thanks for sharing this resource! I usually use Miller's Nursery, but they ship in most of their bare root items these days. I would rather have locally raised as they are already somewhat conditioned to our soil type. When a tree comes from acid soil to basic, they have a rough time for the first few years, and there is no way of telling without knowing what the soil is like from where they came.