I know Dave, you right, but nearly 30 pills a day, a third of which are the strongest opiates known to man, has made this once relatively sharp guy ( well, that is what I have always been told anyway ) just a shell of what I once was. Seemingly simple, plain instructions or explanations, perhaps once easily grasped by me now present somewhat of a puzzle.
I think some of you out there, especially any of you poor unfortunate folks that have a ton of Fentanyl patches on you or swallow a handful of Dilaudid every day will understand exactly what I am referring to, that pesky cloud that hangs over your head turning simple subjects into what appears to be the detailed plans for building a nuclear reactor
I do apologize, I will try and remember what you have said Dave and limit my questions, your right, I don't need to have such specific answers, and, as you pointed out, they might not even exist for such a general topic. Thanks again.
Here are two pics of the disk we made based on the requests and suggestions of the members. One is of the disk ( my wife has helped me with everything of course ),the articles and links all of you sent were of great help. As you can see, we copied the recommended design as closely as possible, the only thing we strayed off course a bit from was the recommend size, we were only able to get a large, 14" pizza pan, but I realize that size is not that important ( nope, not gonna touch that and if anything would make it easier to spot than an 8" pan. I marked the pole, beginning at the 6" spot, and every 2" after.
The second pic is a measurement taken today after we finished adding a final top off of water from the well this past week, so with the addition of nearly half a million gallons of water total, the pond is at its clearest state it can be seen, the noticeable difference will slowly fade until ( depending on heat/sun/other conditions ) it returns to its normal clarity, usually about a week , ten days at the very max.
As you can see, it is at 14" or so today, The large white sections are pretty tough to see at all any lower, in fact, we can't. However, I know I need to take many readings at the same time of the day at the same spot etc, and I think I still need to find that spot, as I nearly fell in and with my back broken, it is nearly impossible for me to tread water for more than even a few seconds, I sink like a stone after that, and my wife can't swim AT ALL ( plus, she is terrified by the rather large and abundant water snakes and our numerous and friendly....ok, WAY to friendly snappers ) so we are gonna walk around and look for a place that can be accessed all year around. I can wade out now, but might not want to do that in November so if I add an extension to the handle, I can lower it from one of the two bridges safely....and tying myself off to it at the same time!
I see when I look at the "preview post" that I cannot see the two files I attached. I will post this, if I then see they did not attach, I will try again, I am still getting used to this, so please continue to bear with me, as all of you have been so kind to do so far. Thanks!
Yea, I completly agree on the docks, our pond is fairly small and already diveded in half by the island with two bridges so I wonder though if it would kinda be overkill for such a small body of water. Actually, the blue steel bridge that you see appear in the two videos and in some of the photos that I posted is a great platform for more than just a support structure for the Moultrie feeders and our access point of course to the center island. It replaced ( attached pics ) a very rickty old wodden bridge that was built on site by friends of ours right after the new pond was dug, the years of sun and rain had taken its toll on it, as you can see, it was beginning to drop off into Snapperville at one end, much to their delight
The new bridge, with the exception of the 1.5" thick oak planks for flooring to walk on, was constructed entirely with steel and measures nearly 30 feet long. Thing is, our neighbor built this over the course of the summer entirely by himself for us, what sets it apart and makes it so special to us other than the fact the man refused to take a nickel for his labor despite our repeated begging to pay him....is that he did all this at the age of 86!! All while caring for a sick friend needing constant care at her home; he came down about 8 years ago to help her out ( she is 82 ) for a few weeks and has never left, still caring for her.
For those of you that have read all of my rambling rants watching me trying to find a runway and set it down, NOW, hopefully, some of the statements I made earlier about wanting to do just about anything possible to make it a great BG pond for him will make a little more sense. I mentioned earlier that we are at our best when we can do something to make life a little better for others. As we have grown older, we found our financial and psychical health both in an apparent race to see which one can cross the finish line in first, and it becomes a little bit tough for us to find ways to accomplish that goal. I have put up a picture of him next to the bridge at about the 70% completed point, as well as one of the two it replaced. Amazing considering that not only can he do such things at his advanced age, he works this hard from dawn till dusk 7 days a week, and can do this at a level I would have been proud of when I was 25, cept I wasn't that tough then, and has no signs of slowing down. We are so glad we can be some degree of happiness for him.
With the kids all gone, with so few neighbors and in such a fairly remote area, our opportunities are pretty much limited to my wife's church and any way possible we can help out this wonderful guy that has devoted his life to helping out others. Seems that all he really has left ( and not much time for that ) is to be able to stroll over to our place and catch some large BG, he gets such a kick in landing really large ones, which prompted us to get the Aquamax 500 and 600 for the Moultrie feeders 2 years ago. The results would seem to indicate that they are working.
By the way, the bridge had to be moved from our neighbors house and put into place replacing the old one, and that was a MASSIVE project that when we sat down with him in the spring and planned it, we all kinda forgot the weight and although we knew it would be a very difficult job, didn't quite bank on the day we ended up with! I actually have pictures and several videos of the people that volunteered on that day, it took the entire day and 9 men, but we ended up with a bridge that is a fine addition to the pond, and a great place to fish from!
It took some shrewd thinking on the part of some cunning country folk that I guess are presented with odd requirements such as this from time to time. The front of the bridge was put on a tractor, the back on another truck, looked much like a caterpillar in motion, and they snaked it down our road to the farm, and all the way to the back side of the pond, and then used a tractor with a lot of manpower and an odd assortment of tools that they used to help them eventually work it into place.
The old bridge, which was nearly as long, and not light by any means but made of wood, had to be moved first, and I have video of two young strong guys that actually pulled it into the small pond and then used 2X4's to paddle it the length of the pond and actually "lift" it ( albeit a real struggle ) into place over the second opening between the two ponds, where a bridge used to exist before the elements destroyed it. In fact, in the picture I posted yesterday, if you look carefully, the first bridge in the picture is the one the two boys paddled the other one into place to swap with. As you look off into the distance, you can see the second bridge is also made from wood, although it is so far away one cannot see that it has dropped all the way to the waters edge at one end. That bridge, the one with the two feeders on it, is the one replaced with the massive one. Had we elected to put it in the spot where this first bridge is, the job would have been 6 hours or more shorter!
The entire process was a sight, I was really worried that someone would get hurt, they were using simple manpower for the last 12 feet as no equipment would fit, and it was an inch at a time! Over the next few days , I will try and post some of the videos I took to Photobucket and will post the links for anyone interested, I have been meaning to for awhile anyway, its just our ISP is slower than my response the first time I was asked to marry a girl
Yea....if your wondering, it happened a LOT more times after that.....my pond is not the only thing in my life that could sure use some clearing up
Most exciting thing to happen in these part of the woods for years. We actually had an audience of onlookers that had heard about the big day involving the move of this massive beast ( AKA...The Blue Bomber.... ) from one farm to another, and then trying to work it in a tight spot to replace the wooden one that had been built in place years before with wood by our Amish neighbors, who have since moved away but may have been some of the best neighbors we have had in our entire lives. Anyway, folks arrived from all over, most of whom I have never seen before, or even heard their name mentioned in seven years! They brought beer, sandwiches, lawn chairs, etc, ( and KIDS, OMG.. I guess one thing I am finding out is that us country folk can do one thing extremely well I guess it does not take to much to entertain us folks holed up in the woods all the time huh? Now in fairness I have to say here that sometimes on a slow day ( Monday thru Sunday ) many around here have been know to show up on the day you have decided to do your normal "burn" of the trash/branch/leaves, etc pile that we all have. Seems that if we let it go a bit to long, when we finally light er up...well, it can be entertainment, enough so to grab a six pack, lawn chairs ( I am not sure anyone goes anywhere without those two items in this neck of the woods and help "supervise" the burn-down...
The gentleman I referred to earlier is of the nature than loves to make things much more complicated and larger/overkill than necessary, but who was I to tell someone another 26 years my senior how to build a bridge when I have trouble changing flashlight batteries? He loves a very old quote ( German he thinks ) he often will say to us...." Why make it simple....When it is so easy to make it complicated"?..Occasionally I remind him that maybe that is partly why they lost the war when he gets so deep into a project he can't even figure out what the original goal was We were actually able to have this nearly 30 foot, all steel bridge, painted with many coats of rust proof paint as well as the oak planks treated 4 times with waterproof sealer constructed for 600 dollars worth of material, and it takes a LOT of hands just to budge it! Of course, that is because over the years we have ( in his mind ) been so good to them he continues to refuse to take a nickle for labor, a whole summer of labor at that! We just treated them as well as we would hope anyone would for sick/old folks, we are not that far from that checkpoint ourselves!
Here are a few shots of it a bit closer, perhaps overkill for such a small pond....but we are not gonna sink into Snapperville this time anyway!
By the way, my bass guy appeared yesterday to visit his ( kinda like ) father in law, who is the 86 year old neighbor I have been speaking of and he was also one of the people that helped move the bridge into place. I asked him for help in removing more ( as many as possible in fact ) of the same size bass he caught earlier. He lives about 50 miles from us ( EVERYONE LIVES 50 MILES FROM US but he will try and also give a shot at getting out Moby and Darth Vader AGAIN, a few of the really large cats you folks suggested we get outta there, and although he managed to hook up to them on a few occasions in the past with his bass rig and 12# test, it was a very short lived battle, line snapped a few minutes into the fight despite actually knowing what he was doing, as he is a very good CC fisherman also.
Additionally, I am gonna try my best to get one of those tiny minnows and get a pic for you folks to identify, I took him to the pond edge where he also saw them explode in all directions but he is does not THINK they are bass spawn either ( although we did see some 6" bass like always, no matter what time of the year it seems, lurking on the surface doing their assigned bug patrol while checking out the shoreline ) and he also said they are so tiny he felt they could not be over a day or two old whatever they were, most likely he felt BG or possibly FHM, although he, like myself, have no idea what a one day old FHM would look like. I know there are posts that help with that, I will catch one if I can and take some shots, try to identify. Whatever they are, they are not much bigger than a water flea, and there are scads of em!
PS....I know I have made fun of us as a whole out here, its my nature, those that know me realize I don't have a mean bone in my body, and the truth is, although I was born in MO, it was 60 years ago, ( left it when I was only 1 or 2 and only returned to visit my sick mother and father several times in the 80's until finally moving here in 2005 ) and I have lived in so many different countries and states it would be nearly impossible to list them all. I find the people out here for the most part to be extremely helpful and friendly, with a much more " whatever I have you can use" type attitude than I have seen in most places. Its unfortunate that I am injured to the point that I am unable to get out and mingle with them and offer some of them the opportunity to hunt/fish on our land. By and large, mid west hospitality is exactly what I had been led to believe over the years, I was not disappointed at all!
I have an update of sorts and a few pics. I took the water sample and sent it in asking for the "poultry" test as suggested. According to the timelines given, they will probably have it done by tomorrow, I should have the results back in the mail late next week. Oddly enough, unlike the soil sample I sent in last year ( not of the pond bottom, several locations close by where I put in food plots ) there was not an option to have the sample E mailed back to me, at least it seemed to plainly state that for soil samples it was an option, but no mention made of water results. This probably is totally unrelated to any management necessary for pond matters, but as it turned out, the samples I sent in so I could determine how much lime, fertilizer, etc I would need to have a shot at successful food plots in our area, known for fairly poor dirt in this part of the state ( as compared to many other areas of the mid west, or even Northern Missouri ) turned in results that were as close to perfect as one could hope for, I didn't have to add a thing to the soil, all of the numbers were exactly in the "ideal" range. And luckily, it produced 2 small plots that were beyond anything I thought we could ever do with our limited ability and equipment. The drought this summer unfortunately absoultly destroyed it, should have made it up to 5 years, I have had it looked at and it is a gone pecan according to our local farmers. One photo is of one of the two plots in the early stage, less than 150 yards from the pond.
My bass guy, along with several family member fished the pond on Sunday, with instructions to try and remove as many of the bass as possible, as well as any large CC. They fished exclusively with bass lures, but still managed to catch a few of the smaller size CC. He did hook up to one of the monsters, and, like always, it took him all over the pond in a frenzy ( he came prepared, put on 15# test this time ) but he could ever get it close enough to actually see if it was Moby, Darth, or one of the others, as usual, it finally found one of the few stumps in the larger pond and wrapped the line around it, that was that. However, it hit the large bass lure, as did all the fish they caught.
I had instructed them to release all the BG until I can actually get some kind of idea IF I actually have a large enough of a population of them to sustain fishing without any additional stocking ( remembering the goal to be a great, BIG BG pond ) or if I just have a batch that hang out by the feeders. He told me ( I was in to bad of shape this time to even make the 100 yard drive out there to watch, I did observe them occasionally from the 45X spotting scope ) that they caught a LOT of large BG, and maybe 6 of what he thought might be green sunfish, as they were noticeably larger than the biggest BG they caught. What he described to me sounds exactly like the HBG that I did stock 5 years ago ( only 100 ) as they grew very quickly and had the bright, orange/yellow belly and were noticeably larger and more aggressive than the BG. Occasionally I still see a few pulled out each time the pond is fished for more than an hour or so, they are far less in numbers than the BG, and fewer show up each year, which would make sense if they are the basically mostly one sex or sterile fish the hatchery stated, citing that they would need occasional restocking if that is a goal fish, as they would not be able to reproduce in enough numbers to make a difference. They were sold as "HBG" with a description of size, other background information but one thing I have realized over the years is that we are not really 100% sure what they are, what is sold as a certain species of sunfish or other type of fish in one part of our country might not be the same fish elsewhere, perhaps even more so in very small hatcheries. Whatever they are, the information they provided on these fish, claiming they were an excellent choice to stock in a pond for children, beginners, etc since they tended to be more aggressive than regular BG and had a considerably larger mouth, making it easier to catch and land them, was completely accurate, along with the claims that they would average somewhat larger than BG and get that size very quickly.
The pictures I took are not very good, I was not up to really being able to get more than a few quick shots. He kept the CC because he thought they were large, he did not know they were not, but that is fine, they need to go also, I know I have plenty of them. As far as the bass, I noticed each time I spent a few minutes watching him in the scope while he was casting, he kept hooking up and fighting bass ( turns out many were bass, but they were also plagued all day with large BG hitting the very large lures they used for bass, and having to release them ) about every 4th cast or so. They were fishing in the middle of the day, it was in the mid 90's, and very hot. I was surprised the CC were that bold on a hot day to hit surface bass plugs, I think perhaps shutting off the feeders as Shawn advised has made them a little less "picky" now and a little more hungry? As you can see from the pics, most of the bass all the same size again, didn't actually catch that many to take home, ( only about a dozen I think, I did not see the other stringers ) due in part because of the pesky BG that insisted on making fishing for bass exclusively, which was their goal, very difficult. They switched to over sized bass lures he told me in what turned out to be a foiled attempt to simply avoid the BG altogether, apparently they were large enough to sill be regularly landed and released. It is very difficult to tell from the pics, but a few of the bass were actually better than I have ever seen so far out of this pond.
He did say when I asked him his opinion why there appeared to not be any large bass in the pond that there in fact were some very nice bass, he said he had at least 8 over the course of the afternoon that were much larger than any he kept, but lost them all at different parts of the fight, most right at the bank where he got a good look. They also released a great many that were in the 10" or less range, said the pond appeared to be heavy with them, and that, along with the big BG and occasional CC, made it difficult to actually focus on the larger bass.
Tomorrow is the visit from the MDOC, and after that, along with the results of the pond water sample, I should have as much information as I will be able to get at this point. Frankly, I am beginning to feel a bit like a fool, I am asking all of you for help for what still continues to appear to be a healthy pond, just very unsure of the numbers of the different species, how to balance that assuming I can even determine it, etc. However, although I continue to discover new things about the pond as all of you kind people help me with my questions, my goal still remains the same. When all the dust has settled and all of you have enough information, I would really love to be able to clear this pond up as much as I can, realizing of course that I will probably never be able to return it to the beauty it was before I changed that! And perhaps it is not even a good idea to try and clear it up to much, I understand that. But the 14" or so is just not at all what we want, and maybe, with the help of everyone, we can do something about that when all the fact come in. IF that is even within reason.
Water results are in, I finally caught a few of the many thousands of minnows and took a few pics and the MDOC visit is over....and that went very badly after the first three minutes.
As for the water samples, I have attached a copy of the report. Hopefully. I have never used our printer a single time as a scanner, the preview seemed ok, lets hope so. I ordered the "poultry" test as advised, based on the information that was enclosed with it, if I were watering chickens, I have great water. I have tried to study the numbers I can find elsewhere on the site, I think they are ok, but I need some feedback on this please.
The fish. There were, and still are, hundreds of thousands of them it appears, and I was only able to net these, and they only represent the middle size, many are so very tiny they appear to be water fleas, they are that small, others are maybe twice as large ( 2" I guess ) as the largest one you can see in the photo. I THINK it is a massive spawn of FHM, but I am just winging it here.
The visit. Maybe best not say much about it, I mentioned before that over the phone call setting up the visit they made it clear they were not pleased that I was also working with PB gathering advice. When they showed up, the first question was how much the pond had cleared up since adding the copper sulfate. I explained that I had not done so, I had informed them of that only two days after they had asked me to do so, and why I had not. I did not mention of course any persons name, etc, but in general told them that it had been made very clear to me that with such a heavy alage bloom, such hot water, and an unknown fish denisity and without any aeriation, I was in great danger of a fish kill and advised to hold off on any such drastic action until more could be understood about what, if any, problems were present.
That was met with a very sharp "Well why are you bothering me and wasting my time if you have so called "experts" ( who, by the way, this young agent went on to tell me that none of the people on PB were correct in that assumption ) are helping you"? Frankly, I was shocked and caught completly off gaurd by the hostile attitude, which only grew worse as the visit continued, as this person was highly agigated by my PB affiliation, who they were very familure with.
When asked questions why the pond was built a certain way or had certain traits, I explained that the folks that built it have been doing so as a full time living for 35 years. Then they informend me that didn't matter one bit, they did't do anything right, etc, it goes on and on, just wanted to argue and tell me that everyone but this person was wrong, knew nothing, etc. When I was told that " when it rains hard, your pond will overflow right here, I had enough and VERY polity told them that the pond has overflowed on 4 occasions due to heavy flooding, I stood in the spillway every time, and they were not even remotly CLOSE to being correct. Basically called me a liar, said they did not care, it would overflow where they say it would, despite my eyewitness account all 4 times.
So, that was a real mess. The visit was not constructive as this person was very agitated from the second my work with PB was out, which was not a secret, I sent them an E mail with the pictures and videos. They admited to getting them, but claimed they never got any E mail about not using the copper sulfate, etc, even though I explained again that I only sent ONE E mail, the pics and message were all on the same E mail.
I am sure this person was not respresentative of the MDOC, just a fluke, luck of the draw I suspect. I have spoken with several other agents in the past and they have all been excellent. I should have suspected a problem, I mentioned a few posts back this agent was about to unload an earful about PB over the phone and checked at the last second. To bad, it was immediately clear in the first 5 minutes of the walk around the pond that I was dealing with someone that had a limited knowledge of ponds, but felt some pressure for whatever the reason to bluff their way into a role of the " know everything"....
Wish I had a better report, but at least I have the water samples ( which I THINK is ok, even good? ) and some pics. I think the pond will be ok, all of you have laid out some plans for removing the large CC, etc and I think it will settle down to a little more of what we would like with time.
Thanks to all, please let me know what you think of the water....and are those FHM? Whatever they are, there certainly is a healthy number of them of all sizes.
One last thing about those fish. IF they are FHM, and I suspect they are, pretty slow I noticed as they get bigger and fatter, shouldn't that make a good food source for all the 6" bass I have roaming all over the pond waiting for a bug to hit the surface? I understand it is not worth the effort for larger bass, but isn't the fact that I ALWAYS seem to have a large population of these small fish year round a partial indicator that perhaps I don't have enough bass in the pond to dent their numbers to much? Don't the large BG also tear into these when available? I am just thinking out loud here, it just seems like a math thing to a certain degree....if these are slow, tasty fish and I had a LOT of bass and BG in the pond, I wouldn't normally see so many of all sizes nearly all year around correct? I realize there is a lot more to it, but than can be one suspect on the list correct, low numbers of prey fish?
I hope you have that MDOC person's name. I'd call them, ask for his supervisor and explain how the visit went. Ask if another person is available to come out for a consult, and get their name before they come out.
From the pics, they look like mosquito fish to me.
They also released a great many that were in the 10" or less range, said the pond appeared to be heavy with them, and that, along with the big BG and occasional CC, made it difficult to actually focus on the larger bass.
If you have great big bluegill and lots of 10" bass, your buddy is doing the wrong thing here. He needs to be keeping all the small bass (ALL of them smaller than 14", say) and releasing the big ones.
Thanks for the fish ID, Google provided me with a ton of pictures and information, I am 100% sure you folks are correct, there are a LOT of pictures out there, most all of em look like these guys.
I have asked the bass guy, on the rare occasions he will have to fish, to refocus his efforts to target the many 6-8" bass lurking around.
I have been studying the "water chemistry" forum for additional information to help me understand my water sample test results a little better. Since it appears that the format results reported back to the pond owner are quite varied and far from standard, they are kinda difficult to compare side by side for a better grasp, but I am slowly getting there....I think
In retrospect, I wish I would have also taken a sample of the clear, cool deep well water that I add so much of to the pond year round. I think it may be worth it to go back and sample that was well, just to make sure there is nothing to odd in it, although adding as much as I do, I THINK if something was way out of range, it should be affecting my current results, with roughly 750,000 gallons added every 5-6 weeks in the really hot months, for the last 7 years. But, the sample would reassure me that the make up water is indeed harmless.
Thanks to all of you, I have learned so much more about our pond just in the last month or so than I could have imagined. And, I just got another issue of PB in the mail last week, so all is good!
Yea, I am so preoccupied with trying to manage my pain levels that I constantly forget very important things concerning just about every aspect of my life. Fortunately for me, ( with help from our daughter ) I at least did NOT forget my wife's 60TH birthday yesterday, although in the last 11 years I have not been able to do anything for her but the cards, etc. Great for me she is a "keeper"
But at least one other member advised me earlier prior to the testing to also gather a sample of the well water, and now that I have found one of the many "To Do" lists, I see that it INCLUDED the statement, "gather sample from both pond and well".
Guess it is better to go back and do it late rather than not to have done it at all. Actually kinda falls in line with your signature rmedgar
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