Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Types of fish to choose Stocking new pond

i'm not familiar with sunfish, what kind is this ? i also found another creek with lots of golden shiners and dace, but they seem to have small black spots on them, i'm assuming worms, do they spread from fish to fish ? i havent used any of these but am curious about the worms.

Looks like a pumpkinseed sunfish and those black spots are not worms but the glochidia of freshwater mussels.

Would the pumkinseeds be good forage for the bass or would they compete with the yp for food ? The minnows with glochidia, they ok to use or avoid them ?

Thanks. Luc

Pumpkinseeds will compete with YP for some resources but there isn't a large amount of overlap. However, they are fairly prolific, so SMB controlling their reproduction could be a challenge. Unless you really want sunfish in your pond, I'd leave them out.

Stocking fish infested with glochidia could lead to freshwater mussels establishing a population in the pond. Glochidia are generally not harmful to their host fish though. What species are you wanting to stock that are infested with the glochidia?

Maybe check some other creeks or sm lakes for 'cleaner' forage species. Small minnow traps are good sampling devices. You don't need lots of initial stocker breeder minnows to get a population established when predators are absent.

I didnt use them, to bad because there was some nice redbelly dace and golden shiners. I'm still on the fence about what bass to use smallmouth vs largemouth. The yp is for sure and they will be a decent size coming from the local river as nobody around here has anything but trout. If i do go the lmb route i could always add some pumpkinseeds, theres 1000's of 1-2" ones in my friends pond. More thinking and reading to do

CJ, around here I've only seen the Pumpkinseeds spawning once a year. Are they known to usually pull off multiple spawns? The PS (at least in the local lakes) are much smaller than the BG, so I think their size would make them easier for SMB to eat.

One thing about deciding between SMB and LMB. If you start with LMB, you cannot switch over to SMB and have the SMB flourish. But, if you start with SMB and see that they aren't getting the job done, you can introduce LMB. The LMB will out compete the SMB.

PS at low denisties can often grow to 8.5" maybe 9". Essup is very correct with SMB you can easily switch to LMB by just adding LMB. Once you have LMB it is extremely difficult without rotenone to switch to all smallies.

CJ and Scott -- mixed information is out there on the pumpkinseed spawning, which often means population and geographic location differences. However, pumpkinseeds definitely have multiple spawning capabilities (i.e., different sizes of eggs in ovaries) and spawn multiple times in many populations. I certainly am not saying always. :-). It all depends (Bill Cody attribution!).

Thanks Dave! Good to know.

Same with RES also.

Punpkinseeds can be fairly prolific see this thread of what they can produce without or with very few predators.
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=296395#Post296395

I think i'll hold off on using them , my friends pond has 1000's of them and various minnows and catfish. I've been taking about 100 golden shiners/brassy minnows/ bluntnose minnows out of it every day and adding them to my pond. I must have over 5000 minnows in there now.bass season starts this weekend and i'm heading out for some smb to add to it, if i can find some. How many adult smb should i add ? 50-75 ? My friend wants to add a few lmb to his pond but i'm scared i'm going to lose my minnow spot. And he's worried the ps are going to overtake it. Nobody remotly close stocks yp or smb.

Thanks. Luc

I would start with 30-50 SMB in the 1.3 ac from mostly 6"-12" maybe a few 14". Allow the forage base and some vegetation to become established before the first spawn of SMB. Smaller sizes are probably better until you have the forage base established with more in pond production of 4"-6" YP. You could even be okay with 25-30 smallies. Then stock some 6"-10" next year maybe 10--15. That is how I would begin.
YP and SMB can work well for you in your area. It is a natural combination for these fish with your current forage fish base.

I decided to go with everyones advice and to go with smb/yp combo. I added 4 smb today and will hopefully have more soon. When we were out fishing for the smb we were catching lots of rock bass and do they ever fight for there size, anyone ever use them for stocking ? Just curious. I've been been adding about 50-100 shiners/minnows a day, it's not possible to have too much forage ? I'm going to be sinking a few more evergreens and these are fresh cut, any issues with using fresh evergreens ?

Thanks. Luc

Adding more forage minnows regularly should be no problem. Extra minnows will increase the chances some survive to be next years breeders. Rock bass will eat small fish,including fry of YP & SMB, and insect larvae thus compete with YP and smaller SMB. I prefer the others over rock bass. Not a lot of experience has been reported here for using rock bass. Rock bass could be a possibility and considered experimental. One would have to be watchful of number of young produced each year. IMO SMB will control YP better than they will rock bass due to body shape and location of the prey. IMO SMB are not 'good' and well adapted at eating primarily sunfish.

I would use dead tree branches compared to fresh evergreen limbs. Needles and leaves add a lot of unnecessary organic material to the pond. Consider building some of the PVC structure shown by others here which will last longer than tree branches. Small parts of the branches quickly deteriorate in water.

Don't be concerned if you cannot stock more than 10-15 SMB this year. Each SMB will probably eaily eat 400-600 minnows until ice off next spring; maybe each could consume 8-10 minnows per day in 55+ temp water? Fewer bass this year would allow for more minnows to survive into next spring's spawning season. SMB should provide a spawn next year to help control a YP spawn. Next year and year after more smallies can be added toward the 30-50 goal.

Watch for YP egg ribbons on branches each mid-late April (water temps 49-54F). I remove all egg strands that I see to minimize YP overabundance. This is important until you get or reach the goal density of the SMB stockers. Usually one of two YP egg ribbons go unnoticed and provide lots of new YP each year. I have discovered that reproducing smallies can easily control YP in low weed cover habitats. Minnows rarely have a chance of survival in these types of smaller ponds.

I have few dead evergreens sunk , and about 15 cinder block that i put 2 sections of 3ft of 4" drain tile through the holes and place them in 3-5 ft of water and about 15 cinder blocks that i ramseted a 12"x20" board to the top and placed them in shallow water board side up. This week i will be making some pvc tres etc. and i have a dead ash tree fom last fall that i was going lay in the shallow water. Any other suggestions ? I wasnt planing on using any rock bass in the pond, but i am tempted on digging a small 1/3 acre pond and trying them in it for my daughter , great fight for such a small fish

Thanks for all the help and great suggestions

So far i've added 14 smb tried finding some smaller ones but about 8 of them are around 16" two are 18-20" and 4 10"ones, i'm going to get another 4000 minnows from a hatchery 3 hours from me and maybe another 4000 in a month to help keep them fed

The problem with stocking fish in ponds that have larger predators is that the stocked fish have to (well, actually "should be") large enough to avoid predation. You might have a harder time getting YP established with the large SMB in there, but before panicking I'd wait and see what Bill Cody says.

I don't know what the conversion rate is for SMB, but for LMB, one LMB needs 10# of forage fish to add one pound of weight.

I was going to wait until the end of fall to add the yp, figured all they would do is eat the forage fish until spring anyways. They will be adult fish 9-12" long

Would blackside darters and logperch be good forage for a pond ? Most information on them says they need moving water for them to spawn. Anyone get them to reproduce in their pond ?

Thanks. Luc

Blackside darters are a definite no. Logperch under extremely rare conditions may successfully spawn in a pond. There are thee species of darter that would be the best candidates for ponds. The swamp darter, the tessellated darter and the Johnny darter. The swamp darter is the most adapted to pond life though, hence its common name. I am not sure any of the 3 species are found in your part of Ontario, Can though...