Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Raising Forage and Bait raising fatheads protected by seine

Ive looked through articles to find what Im looking for to avoid a repeat post and havent found specifically what Im asking so I here it goes. I live on an 11 acre lake 24' at deepest, average probably 8-10' with 4 small shallow bays. it has tons of small lmb lots of size class BG and BC. Im planning on harvesting bass in the 12-14 inch class which are most abundant but want to provide a more diverse forage base to help growth rates I believe adding structure which there is minimal amount of that the lake should be capable of growing these overabundant lmb. Im adding Redears this year and was thinking about fatheads I know the Bass will wipe them out but what if I raise them in those bays an block the openings with seines some FH would venture out and become easy prey while most could thrive and breed in the protected bays and then occasionally push them out or remove seines to create a big feed. Also thinking about adding PK shrimp.

Does your BC = black crappie or blue catfish?? The normal acronym here for bk crappie is BCP.

black crappie... bcp

I assume that since you have crowded smaller LMB that a good number of your BCP are larger sized due to heavy predation from the smaller bass on smaller BCP. Be a little cautious about wanting larger bass and removing numerous smaller bass. I'm not saying to don't remove 12"-14" bass but if you do do it with a watchful eye on the numbers of smaller BCP and the body condition of the larger BCP. As food levels for the BCP gets lower due to crowding their body condition as a group will be less and more thin bodies and slower growth will prevail. These hungry bass are helping to keep BCP at lower numbers where the BCP have ample food and I BCP assume are growing well or acceptable and providing harvestable crappie.

Thus the reasoning to want to add more forage. This lake is my fun fishing lake I do take all species for table fare mostly through the ice and i enjoy catching high numbers of bass just seems like they are on the verge of stunting although they (lmb) are healthy not thin but I regularly catch high numbers from 1 to 1.75 pound and rarely catch anything over 3 pounds Im definitely going to go real slow in making changes in management the redears are to control black spot and white grubs and will also provide some more forage and another great species to this BOW... thanks any comments on the protected fhm idea?

How are your BCP doing in this fish community? All sizes? and what are the lengths of the most harvested BCP??

not 100% sure I dont target them just catch them as bonus fish while bass and bg fishing the ones I do catch vary from 6 to 10 inches healthy looking but no big slabs and dont seem to be any large numbers of them

Try a search for blocking nets. Here are several threads on your question. It will work.

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=5690&Number=52295#Post52295

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=115264&page=1

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=68480&page=1

I think GSH would be a better option than FHM in this situation.

I'm concurring with CJBS2003 as the fatheads just don't provide a large enough size for the larger fish. One of the things that promotes large healthy fish is size groupings of forage fish to fit their gape as they become larger with the lowest amount of energy consumed. Feeding on fathead minnows for a 1.5 pound crappie or a 5 lb. bass is like us eating food the size of peppercorns one at a time.

Seems like a lot of trouble when it could be done with a larger forage fish.

What Cecil said, plus what steps are you going to take to ensure no small LMB get trapped behind the net in the FHM area, plus what steps will you be taking to ensure that no fish can swim under the net?

I'd look at increasing the BG and GSH forage base, but a faster approach will be removing many of the small LMB if they are under 100 relative weight. Have you measured/weighed them to see where they fall? Reducing the mouths to feed will give you faster results.

Look at the size of the BG in the lake. If there are minimal small ones, then the LMB population needs thinning.

In my opinion the seine net to protect the fatheads is alot more effort than its worth. Using dirt to dam up some small areas that can be flushed into the lake will produce much better results and tons of other forage like frogs, crayfish, etc etc as well as a crop of bluegills, shiners, fatheads, etc.

Also consider sprucing up the habitat like you briefly mentioned before, supplemental feeding bluegills to product more forage, or top down management with a few tiger muskies to do the LMB culling for you.

The question ask was will the seine "blocking net " work. Yes it will work and is inexpensive. It is not the only method that will work. Best advice is use several of the suggestions above in combo to reduce LMB #s and increase all forage. Increasing BG #s and size will be better than FH. He may have reasons why he can't do the other options at this time.

ok thanks for the input and yes ewest your right I dont have total control over what goes in and out of this BOW as it is part of a private association. Im just doing research and getting ideas to improve the fishery. It is a very nice lake with tons of fish a great place for kids because the catch rate is high. but the only management that has been done for the past 20 years has been weed control and harvesting of bg and bcp. LMB was strictly catch and release and its really starting to show I caught 68 bass last night in 3.5 hours all 15 inches and under I tried oversized baits and still caught small LMB or missed because of size of lures. and Bill Cody I did catch a big slab crappie. I seen lots of small bg in shallows I really cant believe that theres no big lmb in there but ive been fishing this bow for 4 years and no big bass caught or reports of by other neighbors in last 5 years. I definitely dont want gsh because there ability to outgrow predators meal size threadfins would be an option even if they had to be replaced if cold wiped them out in winter or maybe talapia. Any comments on the shrimp option they seem like a positive addition to me if they can find a niche and reproduce I wouldnt want to replace them very often $$$. There is lots of weeds and cover just worry about when weeds are treated are they able to escape chemicals???

The PK shrimp will only feed the smaller fish, the threadfins will have to be restocked every year, and I don't know of any place to get them up here in the northern part of the state.

Best bet is to take out as many LMB as possible. It takes 10# of forage fish (that's eaten) to put 1# on ONE LMB. How many pounds of forage fish will it take to turn the LMB around without removing mouths to feed?

Esshup I see you have talapia how's that going I like the idea of weed control and fast producing forage and the fact that they can't make it through our winter so they won't overpopulate thanks for advice on other ideas I do plan on reducing lmb numbers that alone will help and will be phase one just thinking of future ideas I'm not trying to raise record breakers just want a more diverse size range in lmb some 7 to 8 pounders down naturally for balance

Ive been thinking about my original idea of protected fatheads and adding PK shrimp and reading all comments that they wont help my cause but in the broad spectrum wouldnt adding small forage take pressure off of yoy bg,bcp, and lmb in turn increasing their numbers and possibly creating larger forage (bait size bg,bcp,lmb) that these hungry lmb could devour. fyi all fish including lmb look healthy although bass are short theyre not skinny if that makes sense...
Just appears that its missing all older bass. is there an easy way to tell age of bass

this years plan add RES and reduce LMB numbers

Calculate the relative weight of your LMB. Then you will have an idea where you stand. Fatheads will last about 3 minutes in a pond with bass. Even if you were to raise them behind a blocking net and released 200 pounds of FHM, they'd still be gone in a few days. GSH would be a far better option. You can add PK shrimp, especially if you have the right habitat for them. In the end you need to remove bass in all likelihood.

I just realized a few of you guys suggested GSH instead of FHM and I thought you meant Gizzard shad not golden shiners I think I mixed up the acronyms at least I hope I hate gizzard shad... if so yeah I looked up G shiners and they look better than FHM for what Im trying to accomplish thanks to everyone for your help. PS is there a page with a list of acronyms somewhere seems like ive seen it before but cant find it now

Yes, GSH refers to golden shiner. Check out here for the acronyms:

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=92442#Post92442