Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Building a dam New pond leaking??? (Photos Added)

New pond is just south of Bonham, TX. So we went from a foot of water last week to being nearly full. We had some lingering rains yesterday, and when I went out to look at the pond today, I noticed small, light streams of seepage from the base of the back side of the damn, all around the deeper sections of the pond. Is this normal?

I called my dirt guy and he said not to panic just yet. He suggested I spread about 800 pounds of cattle salt in the pond to affect the clay and seal it up. Is this worth doing and how might it change my water quality with the thought of stocking next week, Thursday.

Or should I panic and hold off on stocking?

Someone is likely to ask if we used a roller to compact the clays. We did not. There was a small key trench done at the base of the damn, according to my dirt guy.

Thoughts?

Not normal

Im not a dirt guy by no means but ive been around a lot of new ponds taking on heavy spring rains in SE Indiana and never heard of such leaks being normal. Sorry to hear that about your BOW. Wait until the pros chime in before you panic. Good Luck

Hold off on stocking until you have some competent advice. Good luck.

I will be following this with interest. My damn has seepage about 1/2 way up the dam across one side, and the wet spots seemed to develop a couple of months after the pond has been filled. Now I know the dam was built where I noted springs in the past, so I am hoping that is it, but I am starting to worry. I really hope it is other sources of water causing this.

Anyone ever stomp on a dam with a vibrating steam-roller or sheep-foot compactor with success? Wondering if the settling would cause anything to plug up. I know that when my dam was made, the soils were pretty dry and all compaction was done with two large dozers but I cannot imagine that clay-based soil which was like a soft rock compacting very well without adding a little water. My neighbor who has experience with these things said the excavator did an excellent job compacting when he watched.

At least it isn't in the base for me, but it sounds very similar. My budget would severely limit a fix.

Good luck.

I've never heard of cattle salt affecting or sealing clay.


I think you are in danger of losing the whole works. If it were me, and it's not, I would probably be panicing and pumping.

yikes, Dave. I'll try to put up a picture later today.

Here is a link with some pictures of the seepage. Could this be ground water?

http://s1263.photobucket.com/albums/ii635/Dnorm11/

God I hope so, that is a heck of a lot more water than I have, mine is enough to keep the soil wet, but not running water like this. It is hard to tell from still pictures, but that looks like water coming back up through the ground, like perhaps the keyway was not deep enough? I am no expert by any means, but I don't think that is a good sign.

I'm trying not to panic, but I am starting to freak out a bit. My NRCS guy is out of the country for the next month. Let's hear from the experts!

Looks concerning to me!

Hold off on stocking. I don't like the looks of that at all. I'd hate to see you put fish in there and have them all wash away.

I think one of two things will happen:

1) It will open up by itself or

2) The contractor will have to come back in and re-pack the dam, which means draining.

I don't see this correcting itself in any way since it appears to have breached the key already. Hate this for you, but better to fix it now than have to later.

I really can't tell whether it is running through the dam or just leaking rainwater and running down the back. Is it also doing that on the front? Or, it could be running under the dam and just above the key.

I think I would pump it out and take a look. Yeah, I know.......

A small key? What does that mean? What is small? How small?

Yeah, by small I guess I really mean my dirt guy says he did a trench, but I never saw it. I was not on site for much of the work, but I don't think I could have missed him digging a key trench.

I put a call in to Mike Otto to get his opinion, but it may be a few days before I hear from him.

I have had something similar happen two years ago on my red clay dam after it was filled. I did not have any visible streams of water, just several wet spots and puddles that slowely filled. I have done nothing to fix them and most spots have gone away now. I am hoping the last few disappear this year.

It was so annoying the first year since I could not drive a tractor or 4-wheeler around my bond without sinking in the mud I ended up putting a drain tile around the edge of the dam. I then could also roughly measure the amount of seepage by what was coming out of the tile.

Good luck, I hope it works out OK for you!

Thank you all for the replies. Well, the leaking has slowed. below is the response from the local NRCS biologist:

Don’t be too alarmed at the seeping. This is common on new dams. And like you said the leaking has slowed that may be attributed to drop in water level or it has dropped below the zone of leakage. Again, this is common in new ponds. We usually estimate shrinkage in the dam at about 10%. I see no worry as to the integrity of the dam. The Steps to pond sealing is:
1. Wait, let the pond fill, refill, and compact.
2. Add a soil dispersant such as salt.
3. Later, up to a year, evaluate if it has not sealed yet. I expect yours will seal much sooner.

So should I move ahead with adding forage fish??

I agree with some shrinkage but 10%?

1. Compacting should be done in stages as the pond is built. Not sure how you would compact the whole dam from the top. I would ask for clarification here.
2. I don't know what a soil dispersant is. ANYBODY?

Shrinkage is different based on type of equipment used. A dozer does not pack as well as a tractor and scraper. Usual estimates for a dozer is around 15%. A tractor and scraper is about 5%. Have built several ponds with a tractor and scraper and experienced no shrinkage but also lots of experience in moving dirt. It also depends on the quality and moisture content of the dirt.

So a little research shows that dispersant acts like the salts in your water softener system, exchanging one ion for another in clay due to the large concentrations of a different ion (Sodium exchanged for Calcium for example). Calcium ions in clay can from micro-globules due to attractive forces (gritty clay). Replacing them with sodium ions causes the globules to disperse into a uniform material which is not clumped, which acts as a much better sealant (slimy clay).

So with that thought in mind, and enough clay, salt dumped in at a leak site may actually have a sealing effect, but only in some cases. This actually may work for me if my pond continues to seep. I know my clay clumps due to high concentrations of crushed limestone in the soil, but it is also the reason my water clears so nicely so I am afraid of exchanging one problem with another.

By dumping salt un-dissolved down into the potential leak site, you would achieve the high concentrations needed for the ion exchange in the clay of concern without needing to treat the whole pond. The key is knowing where the leak is. Otherwise I think that ESS-13 (I cannot quite remember the name) may be more effective at pretty much doing the same thing.

Look up the different salts available, but softener salts of various types should be usable and relatively cheap. Just have to check out what is does to some samples of your pond water and bottom clay before applying. Maybe the old bucket test.