Pond Boss Forums INTRO New Forum Member Introduction New member in Michigan - 20 yr old neglected pond

Howdy folks,

Just stumbled onto this site today - searching around for a bit of information on aeration/water diffusers. But first a little introduction.

Live in the dead flat part of Michigan. In general we have 1' of black sand then 2' of yellow sand then as much blue/grey clay as you want (historically was all lake bottom back when last glacier left town). It floods every spring & then dries out every summer.

Dug a small pond (110' by 110'; ~1/4 acre or so) where I had a mudhole & poor drainage back in 1990. When originally dug it was about 16 feet deep and then sloped up to where they pushed the clay. It filled fast - apparently there was a small spring . The pond is full full every spring & then maybe will drop 2-3 feet max in summer.

I have a grass lined ditch feeding run-off water into it from a hay field and then have an overflow to a much smaller "pond" that is 30' by 30' and was 5' deep now is 3' max (water hole for cattle many years ago) and from there I have a tile that runs to the county drain... So the level in the bigger pond stays pretty constant. (And my fields dry out a whole lot faster.)

Stocked the bigger pond with bluegills, catfish, perch & a few 12" bass from a neighbors in the early 90's. Also had ducks & geese etc. No pond management to speak of. No real fishing pressure either. Around 2001 the pond flipped & I lost most the fish. Made me sick - 24 inch catfish the size of softball bats. Pulled the ducks & geese (we moved) and the last 10 years trees have grown up (20' tall willows & etc) Get a duckweed bloom bad every summer. Now I am getting back there & trying to see what I can do to bring it back to life - fish life that is & also use it for irrigation of garden / fruit trees.

Current state: Its grown a bit - sides slumping in. Last summer when at its lowest (down 2-3 feet) the water for 6' out on all sides was very shallow. Not sure how deep it is anymore - waiting for the ice to thicken so I can get out & measure.

I am going to install a small irrigation system (~1hp pump) to water an extensive garden. So will have 110/220V power & an idle pump (should run 2-3 hrs max for irrigation - in all I shouldn't need more to pull more than 18 inches of water for a full summer) at pond side for the first time ever...

Goals: Not algae covered all summer, "healthy" pond, good bluegill fishing for the kids & clear water for my irrigation system, keep the wild life (ducks & herons use the pond, saw a muskrat last fall, also lots of frogs - still has some fish - not sure how many or types). Main emphasis is the "big" 1/4 acre pond. The little one appears to be so slumped in as to be irrecoverable without digging...

Constraints: Prefer not to drain & re-dig - especially the big one.

Any ideas from the community to help me think through an approach for 2012?

Thanks,
all_wet

Once you get a maximum depth you will have a better idea about the depth topic. With electricity available you can bottom aerate effectively to reduce chance of winter kills. Removing trees from shoreline will be beneficial. Dead tree roots may provide pathways for water seepage out of the pond. If you live there you may want to consider rebuilding the pond or building a new one with a well made clay liner to reduce summer low water levels. Building a new pond is not a lot more expensive than rebuilding an old one depending on how the job is done.

There is a tremendous amount of reading material here about most all pond topics. Look through the Common Pond Q&A Archive Section for starters.
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=22&page=1

Find out how to do searches for information and topics on this forum. The google technique noted in the following topic works well for many.
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=107697#Post107697

Thanks Bill for the advice and the links. The weather finally cooperated this week -artic air made 4" of ice and I was able to spud a number of holes and get an idea of the depth. Water level is 'normal' now. Deepest spot was 14 feet. Had several 13's too - at least 1/4 of the pond is that deep. Paced it off and it's about 1/3 acre in area.
I did notice a lot of bubbles every time my weight hit the bottom - is that normal?

Also spent the last week trolling the forums - a lot of great info here. I see that aeration is preferred over circulating water. If I already have a pump is it still recommended to buy an aerator? If so, I probably need one that can do 7.5 psig with this pond depth, right?

After reading forums goals would be a) stop the duckweed blooms and b) get a bass / bluegill system going with the target of consistently raising 8+" bluegills...

Thanks,
All_wet

I would aerate with a bottom diffuser setup. It should help your duckweed problem and clear your pond a bit for the irrigation system. It will also help get rid of the gas from the bottom of your pond which is not good for the fish.

Welcome fellow Michigander. My pond is about the same size and depth, but on the young side: 3-years old. I will start aeration this Summer. Where in Michigan are you (most of it is flat with clay)?

Hi Coach - we're mid-state (LP) near Midland MI. Great forum here.

Thanks Blair,

I haven't seen an aerator link that produces over 5 psig. Any leads?
Also, about how many scfm do I need?

Figured the bubbles wouldn't be the best - is it CO2? Also was a bit of slime on the weight each time. Last swam In it 10 yrs ago and it was very uncomfortable walking - the bottom was slimy.

Thanks,
All_wet

It is natural for the bottom to be "slimy". That's biofilm, where most of the nitrification takes place. Did you detect any odor with the bubbles? Could be hydrogen sulphide.

I have a system from vertex and it is top notch. I also have done the DIY type aeration systems buying parts on ebay. Wasted time and money but at least its in the past.

Look up vertex aeration on google or in the resources on pond boss website. They can definitely get a system to fit your pond. At your depth it will run around 10-12psi I am guessing and these systems run up to 25psi. I would say 1/3 hp system 3cfm or so would be a good fit. Figure out what your average depth is and surface acres and then you can calculate the amount of water you need to turn. They say around 1.5 turns/day is ideal.

It will also help with the slime. To speed up correcting the slime issue you should look into benefitial bacteria plus aeration.

Warning!!! I am not an expert and I think you should talk to one. These are 3 on the forum from the top of my head.
Sue Cruz
Ted Lea FOREVERGREEN
n8ly

Thanks all.

Reviewing the literature online (and yes Vertex has a great website) I see that my pond is in the deep and dinky category. The smallest system (XL2) at the deepest point would be able to turn over my pond in less than 3 hrs a day operation... (1/3 acre square, 14 feet at deepest point, guesstimating that it is about 6.25' average depth (from 15 holes spudded in the ice over the weekend), gives 670k gallons of water total, XL2 gives +/- 240k gph lift... at 14 feet.)

Sue or Ted or anyone care to comment on this estimate? Is it possible to have too big a lift??

Absent that advice, I am back to wondering if I can use the irrigation pump to stir things up enough. Recognize it won't have the same lift that fine air bubbles offer, but a 1 1/2" pipe to the bottom with a nozzle pointed up sure ought to entrain a column of water so that I get more than the nominal 50 gpm effect... My pump should be available 22 hrs/day for pond circulating if need be... and yeah the electric bill is a bit higher than a 1/3 hp air pump - but the fixed costs are more to my liking...

Anyone have any experience in this area? Or made the choice & has feedback on the results?

Thanks,
all_wet

PS On the side - lots of fascinating topics here on the forum. Really finding the fish cage discussions stimulating. But I guess job one is to get the pond clear & healthy (de-stratified) before getting more intensive activities started...

Hey there! Can you email me the pond location so I can pull an aerial and run the calculation? sue@vertexwaterfeatures.com
The only time you can "over aerate" is in the winter, you can make your water too cold and in the summer if you have trout, you could make your water too warm. I know how those Michigan ponds can get with the leaf debris year after year accumulating, so plenty of aeration will be helpful spring - fall.