Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Evaluating and adjusting fish populations Untouched Natural Pond Mysteries

My 1st post...but not my first read, the content here is incredible and much appreciated. I feel a kinship for you folks already!

My Deal:

Our family is just days away from moving into a home on a small lake (7 acres?) that has been untouched and unknown to anyone till about two years ago, when a primitive trail was built to it for the first time. It's located about 20 minutes from Duluth, MN.



Unofficially dubbed Lake Julianna; after our daughters- Juliette and Annabelle. This piece of water is a total mystery to us. I am trying to figure out what steps ought to be taken, and in what order, to create the best "table fair" fish habitat possible (trout, walleye, crappie perhaps).

Here is what we know: It is fed via a small creek from a 300 acre marsh about a mile away from us. The difference between high and low water levels varied by 24 inches from last fall to early this summer. The summer depth ranging from 6-10 feet and the fall depth being 4-8 feet. The lake bottom, while a bit soft, is not muck; and the water clarity seems to be pretty decent. It has no foul odors and no algae bloom that I could detect last year.

There is an abundent minnow population evident everywhere you look, but in 10 hours of test fishing that I've done this year I have caught zip (nor have I confirmed any jumping fish). In addition, an otter family, a beaver clan, a heron, and a nesting loon all call our little lake home(though I dragged a giant dead beaver out of the pond a couple of weeks ago, and have had no beaver sightings since).

My dilemma: I currently have limited financial resources (building this house has crushed the checking account into an oblivion). But we want to get the aquaculture moving as fast and cost effectively as possible. So before I just start dumping fish into the lake; is their perhaps an outline, or orderly steps I should be taking to maximize my return on investment while getting a fishable body of water off the ground as quickly as possible? I'd sure appreciate any of your thoughts on this new adventure!!

Thanks all!!

(Yer gonna be seein' a lot me round these parts)

SBW :

Welcome to the PB forum and to your new pond world. Great looking place. As requested I deleted your duplicate post.

Tell us what you want from the pond (goals). Is the pond private - who owns it. I know from others here that Minn. is very restrictive on stocking. This may help a little.

http://files.dnr.state.mn.us/assistance/backyard/wildlifehabitat/excavated_ponds/excavatedponds.pdf

Welcome to the Forum.

My immediate thought is that I would quietly check on just how restrictive the Minn. laws are. Define your options and then analyze your goals and constraints. Will public assistance be a help or hindrance?

BTW, the smiles on the families faces say you already have a winner going.

Hi Sky,
Is the entire lake within the boundaries of your property ? ie is it your lake ?

Howdy and welcome, Sky. Always nice to see a canoe.

I haven't run into any otters, but I think the presence of them on your 7 acres are at least a potential problem to developing a nice fishery there. If you have not read the threads on otters, do so. There were quite a few, several pertinant, that I found doing a search for "otter" in Questions & Observations. You will see a number of people reporting problems with otters making a major impact on fish populations, and differences of opinion on how to handle them.

Gorgeous water, Sky!

Glad you're here.

Welcome to the forum.
Beautiful water and family.
You are blessed.

I would recommend you purchase some floating fish food and begin throwing some out in the evenings. If the fish are there, they will come your way and show themselves. Entertaining for the whole family.

I know nothing about those northern waters, but if you express your goals on here you will get some more informed answers.

Thanks for the warm welcome everyone!!

As for lake ownership, we own all but a 1/2-3/4 acre nub of the water; the entire waterbody is classified by the DNR as "non-lakeshore"; and there weren't even any setback restrictions for building. The part we don't own, is owned by a paper company, as is 600 acres of timber that completely surrounds our 40 acre parcel. The one exception being the tiny pond that's fed from our lake via a 1-2 foot wide little canal that goes through a marsh and under the road to our neighbors property (Though his house is 1/4 mile away from the little pond and in essence is completely ignored).

Here is my crude overhead map, the parts we don't own are shown in yellow.



Our goal is to sustain fish that are pleasing table fair, (Walleye, Crappie, Bluegill or Trout) in sufficient numbers to catch one without spending all day at it. On the map you'll notice a small stream feeding the lake that our driveway bridges.

Ironically I was at the house today and confirmed my first jumping fish! But it was at a range of about 100 yards and all I could figure out is that maybe it was 10-12 inches long.

First off I'm concerned about freeze-out each winter. Though obviously the fish I saw today managed to survive a season or two.

Secondly, since I know we have a massive minnow population (albeit of unknown species), I'm curious how to best analyze the food chain dynamics to acheive the right balance of fish.

I suspect that a $1000 windmill aerator may eliminate my concerns regarding freeze out oxygen issues, but of course I can't be certain. It's also not uncommon that we get 3 feet of ice on our lakes up here. Even in the deepest part of the lake that would only leave a few feet of liquid water for the fish to cohabitate in each winter if I was to allow it to freeze solid.

These are my primary concerns. Thanks again for the warm welcome and all of your substantial posts. I can't express to you how pleased I am at the quality of your site and message board. I look forward to becoming and avid partner in the pondboss community, and will certainly become a magazine subscriber post haste. Thanks again everyone!!

just thinking about ice issues, you might consider installing an elec. pump, multiple station bottom air diffuser as opposed to a windmill. looks like your house is close enough, you could keep pump unit near house (protected from elements) and run airlines to lake, then not have to worry about non-windy cold days, and keep more of lake thawed.

I wonder how otters, beavers, and muskrats would react around operating diffusers....scared enough to drive them off, or just a new feature to play around?

These 3 links have the info you need on winter aeration in northern ponds. There are more threads and posts if you find a point not answered. Its all about depth , temp and O2

http://www.pondboss.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=20;t=001274;p=1

http://www.pondboss.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=000096

http://www.pondboss.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=12;t=000064#000004

Sky, nice place hopefully some of these experianced guys will have some helpful suggestions. Maybe there are some deeper holes out there that can you get an aerator out to. I had a 40 acre lake in the Crandon Wisconsin area, a seepage lake, some years the depth would be close to 25 feet and other years it would be 15. Had one aerator and the beavers chewed the line so much that I rarely ran it. Sold the lake because the neighbors would fish it out while I was gone. Spent a few $1000 for fish and they ate them. No walleye but beatuful perch, BG, bass and crappie.
Should be fun and be sure to keep us posted as depth is always a concern curently have a 7-8 foot deep 100x300 pond in the Adams Wi. area

Wow! What a great place. In my mind the size of this pond is going to make it tremendous fun but also a lot of work if you really want to manage it well. I'm also from MN and I've seemed to have solved the overwinter issues in my pond but it is only 1/2 acre. I actually think the larger pond will be easier in this respect since the chances of supercooling are zero. Based upon what I've learned and read I think I'd install one aerator. I'd do it like someone suggested above, use an electric pump by the house with air lines into the pond. You can build this whole unit yourself for $500. I honestly don't know for this size pond if you need to circulate water from top to bottom. I know that the DNR aerates ponds this size in MN with a surface unit that just keeps an area open and allows for some natural air exchange. The experts on this forum will have to give you advice. I think the biggest amount of work for this sized pond is going to be predator control, especially in your area where otters are present. Then again, perhaps a few otters won't make much difference in that sized pond. The least expensive and easiest route to take would be minimal aeration and then just stock the pond with the right mix and let her go. You'll have to get help on the right mix from the experts. I think a guy like Dave Willis from SD would be a good source of info for northern lakes. It seems that every pond is an experiment and yours will be too. That's why their fun.

Sky Blue -- here are a couple more thoughts. I think you need to think about the size of your aeration system, and the fish species you might choose. Whatever you do, it will be "experimental," just as bz indicated.

If you read some of our previous threads on aeration, you saw that we have some concerns over "supercooling" of the water. The intent of aeration is to open the ice, let in sunlight, and let the algae and plants produce the oxygen. However, if you use too big a system, you might circulate most of your small lake, and actually cool the water below the 39 F (4 C) temperature at which water is most dense. If the water is too cold for too long, we suspect that could cause a fish kill in itself, regardless of oxygen level. I really don't have the expertise to tell you what size of system for your lake size, but we've got some darn good people (such as Ted Lea) who have in the past provided very technical information. Let's see if they chime in; if not, you can track them down in old threads on aeration, and contact them directly.

Next. you'll want to think about fish species based on their tolerance to low dissolved oxgyen. I assume you have many minnows now because there are no predators. The fathead minnow is one of the "toughest" fish that we know, surviving in almost no dissolved oxgyen over the winter. Northern pike also tolerate very low dissolved oxygen. Of all the panfish, the yellow perch is the most tolerant. That's why shallow, marshy lakes in your area that frequently winkterill probably contain these two species. The MN DNR uses them to manage winterkill-prone lakes. Fishes such as walleye, largemouth bass, and smallmouth bass are not as tolerant of low dissolved oxgyen, and will die before the pike and perch.