Pond Boss Forums AERATION Systems questions Pump on aeration off?

I'm hoping someone can help me with a problem. I have a Brookfield compressor running two diffusers in a 1/2ac pond (deepest point is 20' and avg about 8). The system has been running 24hrs for the last month or so.

Today the system was running in the am but now nothing. Compressor is running,seems to be pushimg air, intake filter is clear, all lines are secure and dont seem to be leaking. I ran some air from a compressor and got bubbles so the lines seem ok. When i finished blowing the lines i did get some back pressure and some water not sure if thats normal? Seems like the compressor may not be pushimg enough air .

Any thoughts on how to trouble shoot or fix?

Thanks!

Cdnc,

First, welcome to Pond Boss.

We have a lot of people on the site who know a lot about your kind of problem. I'm unfortunately not one of them.

Here in the mountains of West Virginia, we've always got lots of wind to keep our ponds naturally aerated. We are expecting 70 mph winds in the next hour. We had 50 mph winds earlier this afternoon. A few weeks ago, the strong winds lifted my 50 lb. fish feeder off its hooks, and put it in the pond!)

Being a major three-day US holiday weekend, us "south of the border" cousins are partying and blowing off fireworks until tomorrow night.

Hold tight, and somebody will certainly be with you when the festivities are over.

Welcome,
Ken

P.S. Just what part of Canada are you in? We've got a lot of active members located from the way-out outskirts of Saskatoon, to near the North Pole, to the warm and sunny beaches south of London, and into New Brunswick and Nova Scotia.

I for one am not familiar with a Brookfield compressor. I need more background info as to what type of compressor it is. A picture may work.
Firstly do you have a low pressure gauge (abt 30psi) on the manifold?
Secondly how deep are the diffusers?
Thirdly what type of diffusers?
Forthly What size airline?
HOw did you determine the back pressure and some water? HOw much water?
Fiftly do you have good operating clean check valve on each diffuser?

IMO you living in Canada you should not have to run the unit 24/7 in a 0.5 ac pond. 8hr/7 should be plenty. Any special reason why were you running 24/7?

Thanks for the welcome. Holiday here too!

I didn't install the system but here's what i know: pump looks to be 1/3 HP dual piston pump with air intake on one side and outlet to low pressure manifold on other. Connected to 1/2" line. Manifold connects to two lines that run to pond aerators. Not sure what type they are. They are about 15 feet deep and from what i remember, maybe one square foot with holes. There doesnt seem to be any check valve on compressor. Where the lines exit the ground and enter the pond there are some plastic pieces inline that could be check valves - not sure about any on diffusers. As i type this i do recall seeing some bubbles around these pieces - maybe water is in the line?

Pump appears to be low pressure - no guage but 30 psi seems right.

To test the lines, i disconnected the pump and plugged an air comprssor to the line to see if and bubbles came out (it was relatively high pressure something like 60psi) and we did see bubbles. When i disconnected a could feel air being discharged and then a spray of water maybe one cup?

Hey Ken,

I have never seen a Vertex ad that said if you live in a windy area, you don't need aeration? Was ist los? (:>)

Jerry

Here are my suggestions.
1. Get a pressure gauge on the pump's outlet manifold. This way you can determine what pressure the pump is producing to eliminate an inadequate pressure problem. Air gauge allows one to monitor if system is operating 'normally'. Without a gauge you are always just guessing. Gauge allows one to trouble shoot problems which you currrently can't do. (see#6)
2. Pull diffusers and check them AND clean them. IMO diffusers should be checked and cleaned each year, although most don't do it. Annual checking of diffusers keeps them in top running condition. Each diffuser could be lifted and checked in a boat rather than pulling them to shore. When you have the diffuser up have someone turn on the compressor to make sure it is exhausting good air. You might want to replace the diffusers if they are homemade or don't seem to be working well. Smaller holes in the diffuser produces more water movement. Too small of holes plug up quicker. Diffusers should have some sort of check valve (built-in or external).

3. Go online and see if you can locate your model of compressor or contact manufacturer. See what pressure (psi) and air flow (cfm) it is suposed to produce. Vertex sells a Brookwood compressor. Is yours a Brookfield or Brookwood?

4. Airline should be 1/2" dia (ID) or larger.

5. Often a compressor does not need a check valve but diffusers should have a check valve esp system is on/off daily. Check valve on compressor keeps water from entering compressor which often damages it. If check valves operate correctly on diffuser there should be no water backflow. But underwater neglected check are not always dependable esp without annual cleaning.

6. If pump is not producing standard amount or presure of air, it may need rebuilding. New cups in each head. IF pump is producing adequate (manufacturer rating) pressure then pump should not need rebuilding.

7. There should be an adjustable valve on each outlet air line on the pump manifold. Is they there? These control air flow to each diffuser.

Cdnc, Welcome Aboard. Bill gives you great advise, If your pump is a "Brookwood" it is a Vertex compressor, If it is a dual piston it is probably a COM 106, it may state 2680 CE 48 on the name plate. If this pump will hold 20-25 psi then it is OK and is probably your diffusers.If it will not hold that pressure then a simple rebuild kit is in order as your piston cups and or sleeves may be worn To rebuild that unit I have a pdf with a good pictorial on our site under the "Rebuild Kit" section.You state the air filter is fine but if its a small Solberg metal canister type filter with an internal silencer (small metal tube inside the cap) make sure that tube is clear, I have a pic of this common problem on our site also as you can have a new element in the canister and still be intake air deprived.

Thanks, I will pull the diffusers on the weekend and check. I must have jotted the name down wrong, Brookwood sounds right.

As noted, I now suspect that some water has entered the air line above the check valves. So, I'll clean the diffusers, make sure the lines are well sealed to the check valves and blow out the lines to clear them of any water. I believe this was all installed professionally as part of a larger commercial in-ground irrigation system, so hopefully it's all to spec! There are valves on the manifold to adjust air. I'll also look into installing a gauge.

Thanks!

If it was professionally installed system the lack of an air gauge is sloppy work ethic. It will be interesting to see what the diffusers look like.

A couple of pieces of info that might be helpfull (and im sorry if you posted it and i didnt see) is, The length of plumbing between the compressor and the difusers. When I built my little set up, I was running through 600+ feet of 5/8" water hose. this was ran to my dads 220 shop compressor through a regulator. I had to push 35psi just to get any thing out at the other end, and that wasnt much. I know you said there was no apearant leaks, but it doesnt take much of a leak to shut you down. This was my problem. the leak was very small, amost unnoticable. But once fixed, the difference was night and day. I eventually switched to a ecoplus 7 compressor and it runs like a champ.
I would disconect the diffusers inspect and clean or replace as needed. But while doing that, I would check the air coming out on the diffuser side of the system. Then I would do a leak down test.
This is what I would try. You would need a good shutoff valve on the compressor end and a way to completly block off the diffuser side, and a gauge ( I would have it on the compressor side). Pump up the line then shut off the valve, and stop the compressor. See if and how longit will hold preasure.
Im no expert ( ex meaning has been, and spurt= drip under preasure)But IMO it will give you an idea were your problem lies. Hope this helps
Denny

Does everyone (most) clean their diffusers? And if so, how? Dishwasher?

Thats a good question. 10% bleach maybe? or would that damage the membrane?

Sounds like a good possibility (bleach). Maybe a power washer.

With many of the ponds dowwwwwwwn in the south, it may be one of those things to do while we can.

Personally, with membrane diffusers, I just swam down with a soft bristle brush and quickly scrubbed off the slime/algae coating then boost air pressure to 20 PSI for 10 seconds then shut off flow to expand and collapse the membranes repeatedly (about 10-15 times) to clear any clogged slits that may be there.

cdnc, with aeration and compressed air, unless you have an air dryer system installed, there will always be at least a small amount of water in your lines. Membrane diffusers are self-sealing when deflated and theoretically eliminate the need for a check valve. Check valves are to prevent water from entering the compressor when off, to help slow air stone clogging and for making a start-up easier. Low restriction, spring loaded, positive sealing, check valves are cheap insurance against compressor damage even when using membrane diffusers.

I'm back at the pond site. The run from the pumphouse to the pond is about 100 feet. I've pulled one of the difffusers and it's a dual head, membrane type. Washed the mud off and the diffusers look ok. What is the 'box' on the bottom - for ballest? Seems that it's filled with mud. The diffusers have "kamair" on them and the line is marked "bottom line".

Will retape fittings and see what happens tomorrow and pull the second diffuser (deeper and longer run)

Yep, the box should have gravel (not sand) in it. That's also to keep the diffusers up off the bottom, where they might stir up the sediment. When placing them back in the water, try like heck to get them on the bottom with the diffusers up.

Cdnc, follow Bills and Teds advice. They know their stuff. Get a gauge on there asap. That will help immensely with the diagnosis. If you have one in shallow water, and one in deep water you will have to adjust the valves on the manifold to cut down air to the shallower diffuser, and run the deep diffuser wide open. During the winter you'll need to shut off the deeper diffuser and run the shallow one wide open. "Bottom line" air line just means that it's most likely a self-sinking air line (which is good!).

Closing the loop on this. Took the pump apart and both sides needed a rebuild. Took some time to get the kit but the rebuild was fairly simple. Back in business! Thanks for the advice and tips.

Cheers