Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Types of fish to choose Smallmouth vs Largemouth Bass ??????????

Hi there,
I am wondering what your opinions are on Smallmouth vs Largemouth bass. I am trying to decide betweein these two and I am finding it hard I like fish that fight real hard and are a challage to catch, but I also like catching larger bass too. Is there anyone that has raised both? What are your thoughts?

If you like hard fighting fish then consider hybrid striped bass - HSB. For fish of equal length HSB will always outfight LMB and SMB. IMO - If you have never caught a HSB do that first before deciding which one to stock. IMO HSB make the fight of the same length LMB look wimpy.

Iman, welcome to the forum!

In my region (East Nebraska), we have lakes everywhere that are stocked with LMB (largemouth bass) and virtually none that hold SMB (smallmouth). For this reason, and because SMB fight harder than LMB, I have chosen to go with SMB. It is of personal preference and management capabilities. A LMB/BG fishery can be “easier” to manage, while keeping forage established in a SMB pond can be established, as BG cannot be kept in check by anything other than LMB, so other options must be considered.

Iman, what part of PA are you in?

I would go with Smallmouth, Yellow Perch, some bluegill, and Hybrid Striped Bass, but it all depends on all of the details of your pond (ie/ what size, depth, water flow, etc. etc.).

I've had both species in a pond, but both were feed trained and the smallmouth had to be periodically restocked after the fingerlings were grown out in a cage to get to a size the largemouths wouldn't eat.

I live in northern PA also why is my name under Iman??????? I tried to sign up once with Iman, but it did not work so I signed up with dzforums. P.S. Why hybrid striped bass along with Smallmouth? I plan on having either Smallmouth or Largemouth, not both. So I don't think the fish net is necessary.

P.S. I like your sig Cecil!

Hybrid Striped Bass are usually sterile and won't breed and then overpopulate.

It's commonly accepted knowledge that if you put equal amounts of SMB and LMB in a pond, the LMB will eventually overpopulate and squeeze out the SMB.

Plus, the mouth size on HSB stays relatively small thus limiting what it can eat regarding the size of the fish it's trying to eat whereas a LMB's mouth just gets bigger and bigger.

Do SMG overpopulate ponds? What would I need to keep them under control?

Smallmouth can overpopulate if there's no predator to keep them in check. Yellow Perch, Smallies, and HSB will all eat smaller SMB.

Tell us more about the size of your pond, if you can.

It is a 5 acre pond, small really. It is about 10-15 feet deep and it is extremely rocky. I have had several construction projects and all the rocks from them went into the pond. Which would be the best for keeping the SMB under control? That is why I am leaning towards SMB, because the pond is well suited for them.

I do too. That's why I stole it from someone on another website.

Iman, welcome to the forum!

I think you will really enjoy HSB. If you've never caught one, they really do make LMB and even SMB look whimpy!

If you have rocky habitat in your pond, I would go with a combination of SMB and HSB. They mix well together... The SMB should be able to naturally reproduce in your pond with rocky habitat. The HSB are capable of reproduction as they can cross back with either parental species or even two hybrids. However, there is rarely the proper spawning habitat for them to do so in ponds and even if they did, in all likelihood, their offspring would all be eaten before they reached catchable size. SMB have a much lower reproductive rate than LMB do, which is another factor that helps them to not over populate. LMB have large mouths, which helps in some ways but really can hinder in other goals.

If you do decide to go with SMB and HSB, there are a number of other species which go well with them. Yellow perch(YP) and walleye(WE) come to mind. You'll want to establish a good forage base before stocking your fish. Golden shiners(GSH) and Fathead minnows(FHM) are the two most commonly stocked in this situation.

Bluegills(BG) are an option, but controlling them with the smaller mouths of SMB and HSB can be a real challenge. BG are not the only sunfish species available for stocking. You are too far north for Redear sunfish(RES), however pumpkinseed sunfish(PSS) are an option. They do not reproduce as much as BG do but also don't get quite as big. Another often overlooked but good option in a pond like yours would be the redbrest sunfish(RBS). RBS do well in rocky/sandy bottomed ponds. Although they are more common in rivers and other flowing bodies of water, they do quite well in ponds with rocky/sandy bottoms. Their reproductive rate is substantially lower than BG, they are a bit more fusiform than BG meaning HSB and SMB would be able to more effectively prey on them as well. There are also several commercial sources available for them. And, to add interest and variety, there is a golden morph form available that looks similar to the golden morph of rainbow trout that are commonly stocking in PA.

With what you describe, I think the SMB would be the best bet even if you didn't stock HSB along with them. However, once you stocked a few I think you'd be happy with the decision. SMB can be managed by angling alone generally. If they begin to over reproduce and thus over populate, through angling pressure, you can remove fish to prevent stunting.

At what stage are in at in the construction of this pond? Is it complete, filling, full, been sitting with no fish for a while, etc? Do you have electricity near the pond? Are you willing to feed the fish pellets? Are you willing to install an aeration system? What are you goals for the pond? Obviously you enjoy bass fishing... Will they be the primarily focused on species in your management efforts?

My pond is filled with water it is around a year old. I stocked crayfish and Fatheads all ready from a local hatchery. (I have TONS of Fatheads and Crawdads!) I plan on buying a few aerators (Kasko power aerators, and some bubbles to get the bottom of the pond well aerated.) I LOVE fishing and I am quite willing to spend the money! As far as I can tell the habitat is optimum for SMB, correct? Will hybrid stripes grow well in this habitat? What is their prime habitat? I know that SMB feed on more streamlined shaped fish so I am planning on Golden Shines. I will feed the fish if necessary (although I like the more natural food supply)! I was thinking shad, but then again the pond is clear, although it is winter I was thinking that if I fertilized the pond, limed it, and could then stock it with shad. Which shad species? Any other suggestions? I want to grow trophy SMB that fight hard. Should I get SMB from a few different hatcheries to mix up genetics?

Pond aeration isn't something to take lightly... If done wrong, it can do more harm than good. There are a couple of members on here who sell aeration and several more who are very knowledgeable in it. I would strongly recommend you make a separate post in the aeration section of the forum and seek their advice, consultation and perhaps their services and purchase from them...

Rocky areas are prime SMB habitat. Take some photos of your pond... I and other forum members would certainly love to see them and we'd get a better idea on what you're working with.

HSB do well sharing habitat with SMB... SMB tend to hug cover more closely while HSB tend to be more open water predators. This isn't always the case, but a rough generalization. You are correct in that SMB tend to feed on more streamlined/fusiformed fish. Shiners, such as GSH do make excellent forage for them. I agree that a more natural food supply is easier on the pocketbook and more of a challenge. However, feeding your fish will certainly produce more fish pound per acre as it truly increases the biomass the pond can hold. Feeding the fish isn't necessary, it just increases the number of fish the pond can hold.

There are two species of shad, threadfin shad, often referred to as tshad on here and gizzard shad often referred to as gshad on here. Tshad will not survives winters as far north as you are. Gshad will, however they reach sizes way too big for all but the largest of SMB and HSB to eat and even then they are often too big. 16"+ gshad are not uncommon. In the end they take up huge amounts of biomass, crowding out other fish. With a SMB, HSB pond, gshad would not be a good option in all but extremely rare cases. It also sounds as though your pond doesn't hold much of a bloom another factor limiting your gshad stocking success.

If your primary goal is to grow large SMB, then I would stock the GSH this spring, stocking 10-15 pounds of 2"-4" fish. Give them a solid year to grow and reproduce and then stock the SMB. Stock 25 bass per acre for the first two years. So in the end that would be 50 bass per acre in the end. You can source them from 2 or 3 different sources to get different genetics.

I still think you would really enjoy the HSB. You can also stock (WE) as a bonus fish without any repercussions. YP can be stocked as an additional forage fish and an additional fish to angle for as well.

lman, here's a list of fish hatcheries in PA. if you don't have one already, lots to choose from.
I think CJ covered everthing else.
http://resources.cas.psu.edu/WaterResources/pdfs/SportsFishDirectory.pdf

Iman,

Don't waste your money on surface aeration in a recreational pond. Not needed and a waste of money. Diffuser/compressor system yes, surface Kasco aeration no.

Northern PA is a large area Iman, I live in Crawford County, NW PA area, where abouts is your pond? I agree with CJ that aeration can be done wrong, but if you read much of the forum section on it and understand the risks you can design/build our own system and it will help your fish.

Also, just a beautiful April 6th here today, snow falling and an inch on the ground, whole place is white, Go Global Warming!!!

So it's snowing all over the world today?

Hey Joe be carefull, Cecil is moving back to the coast of Mass. were he has a franchise for cloud seeding with ocean water to reduce the effects of GW.

I see this thread going the way of the master... Master LOCK that is!

And I'll get the blame again for pointing out the obvious generalization.

You can do that?

Don't lock it on my account, I was just talking about the weather....geesh. I can't speak for the world, but if the whole world was getting warmer, I'd have burned less firewood this winter. I have the same fire burning since November, and this was one of our longest lasting snow packs in years. It's actually raining out now, so Yahoo it's Spring??!!!

Cecil if you are moving, you got any fish that need homes??

Iman, still wonder where you are located a little more specifically than Up North.