Pond Boss Forums GENERAL QUESTIONS Pond Boss McGuyver? Engineer? Creative Thinker?

Seems to me that there are more than a few sharp people among us that might be able to solve this, at least I hope so. This is going to take more than a couple of sentences.
Many years ago I was faced with a post cold front condition that put the fish I was on really tight to cover with a very short strike zone. This problem is common to all fisherman and always has been. It is especially frustrating for tournament pro's where thousands of dollars can depend on a good day during bad conditions. Anyway..I knew those fish were there and I did manage to catch a few by making multiple casts...dropping a fly in front of their nose over and over and finally sneaking up close to them and flipping a jig in their face. Lots of work and not nearly as productive as 24 hours earlier when these same pre-spawn bass would eagerly run 2 or 3 feet to smash whatever you threw at them. It occured to me that I needed a lure that would "backup". Imagine if you will a lure like a Tiny Torpedo that you could pull forward 12-18 inches then when you stopped it would back up an equal distance because some kind of spring loaded device or mechanism of some sort stored then released the energy created during the forward pull. I could throw it next to a high percentage (stump) and just horizontally "YO-YO" it until that fish couldn't stand it anymore and ate it. I was never obsessed with this notion but I did tinker with it for 5-6 years and ran into many physics problems. Such as...water isn't dense enough to load a spring very well no mater what size or type of spring you use or what type of delivery device your lure employs..also I found that when the spring or whatever you're using begins to "load" it has a tendancy to want to unload way before you get to 12-18" I also found that even under the best of conditions that it was going to be impossible to get 100% energy return...the very best I ever managed to do was get a forward pull of 18" and an opposite return of about 5-6"(30%). Don't get me wrong I caught a lot of fish on these prototypes and had a lot of fun messing around with them. I am not an engineer or a Shoestring DuBois wannabe...I am not trying to invent, sell or market anything. I had actually forgotton about all this until yesterday when I faced the same situation. I was just thinking that someone here might have thought about this as well or might be interested in thinking about it now.

Even if you had to put a battery in it or a small solar charging set up I think if the hook worked it would be a hot item. place a thruster type unit inside and it should be fairly efficient but i am not an engineer.

Blair Thanks for the reply and input...I was/am trying to avoid batteries/elec type of deal if possible. Most of my prototypes(failures) were fashioned after either those little motors inside of the kid toy cars that you simply place on the floor then pull backwards a foot or two then turn loose or those rubberband powered balsawood planes.

Is drop shotting legal? That'd be the easiest was to keep the lure in the strike zone for a long period of time. Lighter lure, heavier sinker.

I know that they make some really long rods for crappie fishing. I wonder how they'd work for LMB? (like a huge cane pole)

The "flying lure" didn't work?

Compressed air would work good. But would have to be refilled each cast and probably limited thrust per cast

I think if you concentrated on the aerodynamics, or hydrodynamics, of the lure, this would be the easiest solution to implement. If the lure was rear weighted and the design of the lure was such, that it would want to "swim" backwards, you could possibly get what you are looking for. I think the biggest problem with this design, or any design for that matter, would be your 100% energy return. Just like an unpowered pendulum will never swing back to it's original position, the lure will not want to, either. It looks like this is why you were trying the spring loading idea.

Since this is a brainstorming session, I am going to throw this silly idea out there for you to ponder. Remember those toy submarines that used to come in cereal boxes, and you would put baking soda in them to power them? How about something like that?

FFF, I am an all tackle angler and love Tiny Torpedos - crank it fast and stop it at the stump and - BANGO!!! - but don't know how to make it back up.

What I do in situations such as you describe is to throw a big rear weighted type fly at them - you can keep flies in the stike zone longer than lures and a rear weighted fly will back up on the fall.

I'll send recipe if you are interested.

Hey Yall..Thanks for the input I knew I'd get some help here...all good advise & suggestions. I did try loading one my homemade torpedoes with an Alka Seltzer and venting it forward..wouldn't really push the lure backwards effectively but caused enough commotion to generate some nice strikes. Yes drop shotting is legal and effective..but in my experience this presentation is much better suited when you can get on top of deep summer/winter fish and then vertically "yo-yo"...deadly! however the problem I'm trying to solve really doesn't involve deep summer/winter fish..A lock jaw inducing..water temp dropping cold front invariably happens in the spring or fall when the fish have been feeding in shallow water(0-6') then get hit with a front.These fish won't turn tail and race for deep water..normally they'll just cozy up to something. Some years ago someone was selling a rear weighted soft plastic deal that was supposed to sort of back up..it didn't. Yes George I am rarely without a fly rod in the boat and have used some of Whitlocks deer bugs with success..but thats not exactly what I'm trying to accomplish. Anyone reading this that has bass fished for any length of time knows that a bass will bite a noisy buzz-bait..torpedo..spook..pop-r..etc even when they are inactive..call it a reaction bite or instinct or territorial or whatever you want to..I've caught many fish on these baits that were hooked in the top of the head or tail or sides or gill plates..these fish weren't eating they were smashing. In my mind what I need is a lure about the size of a thumb that floats, makes that special mesmerizing gurgling reaction bite inducing noise that will stay in a small strike zone awhile. Alex Trebeck..yes Alex sold a spring loaded floating frog some time ago that had a Chatty Cathy type of string coming out of the mouth about a foot long (think of that "and the cow says moo" toy) that would make the legs flail about for about 5 sec....FAIL.
PETA members and CO's close your eyes...I had one of my S.Ga. friends helping me with this problem ...his solution..whenever he was facing this scenario he would stop by the local feed store on his way to the pond and pick up 3-4 live chicken bittys then zip tie them around the shoulders up under the wings then put a 2/0 hook between the tie and the bitty and lob it out to the target and HOLD ON...probably illegal..but fun! Ever seen a locust or bee trying to free itself from the surface tension?? imagine that plus 10!. I am trying to avoid going to jail or trying to solve Rubiks cube or load a Pez dispenser...hoping to come up with something relatively simple/effective. AGAIN THANKS FOR ALL THE INPUT PLEASE KEEP IT COMING

i actually have a lure put out by Chuck Woolery that has the string type device you were talking abouth the frog having. It's a bass colored lure that swims for a few seconds after it hits the water and the string winds back in. It does swim. Maybe something with that type of coil spring system connected to a paddle wheel of sorts to make the lure back up? just a thought.

I'm not even sure who is joking and who is serious anymore. I am sure though that Bob Barker wouldn't have approved of the chick-lure.

Hey Bullhead...yea that string deal was more joke/hoax than anything else...I have tinkered with paddlewheel type things powered by various stuff and placed front & rear & mid...kicked up some water but very little actual movement. As far as the chick thing ...absolutely no joke...I have an old VHS tape we made one day that recorded the whole process from chick softly plopping down to the strange almost surreal sucking sound as a 9LBer just eased up under it flared her massive gills and GONE!! If I can find it and figure out how to transfer it to some kind of uploadable format I'll post on FB or Utube. I love a good joke but the truth is always stranger than fiction. Bob who??

I'll try to get a pic of the lure tonight and post it. No joke, it actually worked, sort of.

I had one of those lures with the string that you pull. It worked good.

Really?? Was it the Chuck Woolery or the Alex Trebeck design or some other? Did it actually create measurable movement or sit still and flail about?

The best way I have found to catch cold front lock jawed LMB is dead sticking soft plastics.

Agreed...but I'm still convinced that the yo-yo ing torpedo would kill in certain situations when the dead stick just lays there dying.

For the real terrible conditions you can't beat a DuPont Spinner. That'll get them when nothing else will.

Isn't that the French slang for hand grenade?

Hey ESSHUP After I jokingly posted the above curiosity led me to Projectdelta.net...seems I was pretty close to the mark. Been there done that. Not S. China Sea of course just very similar technique.

You were close. Just a little less shrapnel.

Anyone ever tried the Wink Martindale buzz bait?

What is it about no talent hack gameshow hosts that makes them think they are lure inventors? No I haven't tried or even seen or heard of Winks buzzbait, but I am willing to tie one on if I can find it.

In PA its illegal to use any lure battery powered... never really understood that part of the hand book, untill I read this thread

Cody I don't think lure applications like we've been dicussing here are behind PA's ban on lures with batteries...the potential exists for someone with lots of time and money and a very in depth knowledge of batteries-inverters-capaciters-etc etc to have a lure that could function much like a miniature taser....unsportsman-like to say the least. During my mispent youth in the deep south I did many things that I am neither proud or ashamed of...it was what it was. Pipe bombs-shooting fish..snatch hooks..long list. I certainly wouldn't do any of those things now, but those experiences were priceless, and are a part of my heritage as well as precious memories.