Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Types of fish to choose Stocking new pond - I wanted my pond NOW!

Talked with a local fisheries biologist this week. What he told me is not what I wanted to hear but after additional research online, it seems consistent. Given the expense of this project, we will be patient and follow the expert's advise. Here it is:

1. After completing the pond (Operation Goat Pond), lime it, disc it in, then plant it with browntop millet for the summer. We are building this pond at the worst possible time for fish stocking, so we will delay filling the pond (stream fed)until the Fall.

2. Filling the pond this Summer will allow the native creek-fed fish to flourish and overtake the pond. Before filling the pond, we will kill native fish in the creek with Rotenone.

3. Stock with Bream in the Fall/Winter then follow up with LMB later in the Spring. 10:1 Bream to LMB ratio/acre. (3:1 bluegill to shellcracker) Bream1000/acre; LMB 100/acre; CC 100/acre.

We were on track to stock this month w/ Bream & CC and LMB in the Fall - just the opposite of what we should be doing.

This advice is backed up with more than 40 yrs of research and very consistent with dept of natural resources and academic institutions' published research. Their's not a lot of guesswork to be done. It seems there is a formula for establishing a new pond for optimal recreational fishing that impacts the life of the pond.

Sources:
* South Carolina Fish Pond Management Guide - has an excellent glossary of terms.
* Farm Fish Pond Management - SCDNR
* Gen Hayes - SC fisheries biologist (ret.)

What kind of fish are in the creek? I would think it would be harder to kill off all of the fish in a creek with rotenone than in a lake.

small minners is all I know

Minners could be a multitude of fish, from carp to ?? What did the biologist that you consulted with say was in the creek?

If there are only minnows that might be beneficial to your pond. It seems lots of people stock fathead minnows before anything else to give their fingerlings a boost in the first year and usually they are cleaned out by the bass/bluegill. Unless there are some unwanted fish like bullheads or carp in the stream maybe the rotenone isn't needed?

Hasn't said. Hasn't been on site. I'll try to take a picture of the fish and get them posted here for I.D.

If you just have shiners there is no need to kill them off.

They will become bass food

Even if you kill them off aren't new ones going to keep swimming downstream into your pond?

This sounds like a great project. I can understand the excitement and urgency express in the title of this thread.

I do have a hesitation, though.

Killing native fish with Rotenone in the creek seems like a rather poor choice, ethically. The creek can carry the Rotenone far from your property and affect the stream a long ways from your place.

I understand that the species you (CC, BG, LMB, etc.) want may have to compete and that is not ideal. Though, it may turn out that some of the smaller native species could act as food for your species of choice.

How well do you know the species already in your stream? I recommend getting to know them well, before you decide to kill them off. It take more time and patience, but it is much more ecologically and ethically sound.

Since they are already adapted to the conditions in your area, they might serve to become a better forage base in the long run than the usual FHM, GSH, etc.

Just thought I'd add a different perspective...

Depending on the fish in the stream, you might not have to kill them off; saving $$ and time. Most stream fish aren't adapted to ponds, and while they will live in a pond, they won't thrive and most likely won't even spawn.

A number of stream fishes can live quite well in a pond but they usually do not reproduce.

Kiko we have many pond owners here with live feeder creeks keeping them topped off but also constantly stocking with all manner of creek fish [bullhead, drum, carp, gar, etc.]. One of the best ponds I ever fished [nearly 25% of all fish caught were Master Angler] hosted multiple species including the creek species but had sufficient population of apex predators to manage their populations. One of my favorite live baits for trophy LMB happen to be bullheads. I also fish for FC, BC and CC using bullhead, drum, and carp. So it's just a suggestion on my part to try and alleviate the concerns regarding the creek fish - you will eventually end up with them in your pond - it becomes more an issue of management strategy rather than rotenoning the creek - sounds like a fun and thoughtful project from which everyone on the forum can benefit. How to control potentially undersirable species through fisheries management. Maybe you'd be a candidate for an Esox species as discussed by Lusk and Willis in the latest issue.

Hey KIKO!! I'm excited for you! However it should be noted that starting a new thread isn't going to magically change the advise that you are getting regarding that creek. Nice try though!

Small creeks with fairly good water quality usually have a suprising large diversity of fish species including sunfish, common carp, a type of sucker, and a few shiners /minnows. Can you provide an idea of how big this creek is (width & deepest) and how long it is before it empties into the pond? Are there any small ditches or tributaries that feed the creek above the pond?

I think I understand this better reading Kiko's other thread. The creek is only 1/2 mile long from it's orgin [spring] to his pond. I either didn't read or understand there was only a 1/2 mi of creek involved. I guess rotenone would be an option, but wondering how your neighbors feel about sterilizing the creek on their property? Good luck at any rate, sure looks like a nice setting.

Would it be legal to Rotenone a creek?

Why not fill the pond and stock the bass? They are available for many more months yet this spring. If creek fish will get in the pond eventually why not use them for bass food initially?

Rotenoning a creek doesnt seem legal or ethical.

T - I can't access the latest issue. But I guess the whole thing boils down to this: I acknowledge native fish will always be subject to entering the pond, that is not a problem as long as I already have a food chain established. The goal is to never let the "undesirables" gain a foothold. Thanks, but not sure I want to be an experiemental pond. Just want to do it right the first time, based on data and facts.