Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Corrective stocking What to stock to help bass growth

This is a great forun, I have been reading for a while but now have some questions about my pond

I am one of 3 people who own property on a 7 acre pond, the pond is max of 10 feet in NY. The pond had an OK bass population but 3 years ago flood wiped out the dam and much of the fish population was lost, we rebuilt the dam and restocked based on the state fish and wildlife recoomendation (based on reading here and else where it might not been the best advice) we stock 1000 4-6 inch fish, we were told no need to restock prey fish as they would survied the lose of the dam as a foot or so of water did remain in the pond.

Things looked good after year one and by year 2 the fish were about 6 to 10 inch, the problem is at year 3 this spring and summer the fish were still only 6 to 10 inches or at least what is being caught.

we have caught no sunfish, the pond never had a great sunfish population but I also do not see much bait fish either, I am looking for some help on what to stock in a pond with at least several hundred 6 to 8 inch bass and I would estimate a 100 10 inch bass

Down here in my south Texas Pond. Blue gill is my bass main food supply. I add some tipalia too this is another bait fish for my bass.
some of the "Pro's" will soon follow with number rate you should add. Good luck.

Hello Judge and welcome to Pond Boss. In order to help out the experts:

You mentioned that you stocked 1000 4-6 inch fish. Were these Largemouth Bass?

Were there any sunfish in the pond prior to the dam breech?

Have you tried fishing specifically for sunfish? Perhaps using live worms?

I'm asking these questions to give the experts an idea of what is in the pond.

The "normal" approach to pond stocking is to build a forage base first, then introduce predators.

A seven acre pond is a very nice sized pond and has tons of potential.

A very easy recommendation is for you to learn as much about ponds as possible and since this pond is co-owned with other people if you can get them educated and excited about managing the pond then it will make management decisions easier.

There are several really good books that I recommend. If you go to the books section there are several very useful books. I highly recommend "Raising Trophy Bass" (even if you do not intend to manage your pond for trophy bass this is an excellent book) and "Perfect Pond....Want One?

Also if you click on the Free Pond Boss Articles in the upper left you will be magically led to a web page that contains a multitude of free pond articles. I highly suggest that you read through these articles they contain fabulous information and they are absolutely free. Yep free, no strings attached, no hidden fees, no buy one - get one free offer, no "but wait... there's more."

Welcome to Pond Boss, we're glad you found us.

Yes LMB

There are a few small Canal cats too but nothing over 8 inches that I have ever caught even before the dam broke

I have a 4 year old so we do a lot of bobber fishing and only catch LMB, like I said if I had to do it over again (which is what I am trying to avoid)I would do things very differently. The issues I have is I am not sure that there is much of a base, I think the bass are eating mostly tadpoles and frogs I have not seen much in the way of bait fish and I have not caught a bluegill in at least 2 years, like I said there was never a ton of sunfish but you would get a couple small bluegills fish every time you fished not anymore

The other owners are not big into fishing and it was a big deal when we rebuilt the dam and restocked, in fact I did most of the work. I don't expect much help which is why I am looking to get as much advice and knowledge before I spend more money.

I spoke with a local fish farm and was planning to buy FHM but the owner said I would need to add them each year or every other year, I am not sure I can afford that level of stocking. They recommended pumpkinseeds but due to the bass size I would need large fish and the stocking was still pricey they recommended 200 to 400 fish per acre and that I would need 3-4 inch fish which are $2.50 per fish that would cost $3500 to $7000 plus delivery, not sure I am in a position to spend $3500 right now, never mind $7000, but I want to do it right

You've come to the right place. We'll help all that we can.

Without having a forage base established, the LMB are relying on eating each other and anything small enough that falls into the pond. It'll be hard getting a forage base established with the LMB in the pond now. You could stock larger BG, but even most of the 2"-4" fish will get eaten. I think you need to stock larger ones (4"-6") and remove some LMB.

Around here, the 2"-4" fish run around $0.60 each and the 4"-6" run about double the 2"-4" price.

The reason I say it might be hard, and that you probably need to remove some LMB, is that for every pound of weight you want to put on one LMB, you need 10# of forage (food).

Forget about fatheads, it's like throwing small candy bars to a crowd of kids. They'll be gone within a week, and probably a lot quicker than that.

I don't know much about PS, but I don't believe they would reproduce enough for your situation, an overpopulated LMB pond. Unfortunately, what you probably should do is stock larger BG so that they can get a reproducing population established and get that forage base going again. Possibly stocking some GSH to enhance the forage base even more and take pressure off of the BG. FHM will only be an expensive snack for your LMB, unfortunately, so you will probably be advised by experts not to go that route. Also, selective harvest of the LMB you do catch. Search Relative Weight Chart. Keep anything you catch under 100% until you start seeing more consistent 100% fish. I'm no expert, but this is what I've seen most advised by the experts on this site for this situation. Good luck and we like updates.

Welcome to Pond Boss Judge, I agree with the info you've received so far.
Getting a good forage base started is gonna be hard but not impossible, you could start reducing the population of LMB in the spring by using fish traps, then increase the protective structure for your bait fish, Christmas type trees work well when anchored at their base with cement blocks.
Golden Shiners are an excellent bait fish, you could get maybe 5 to 10 pounds of adults or more if you can afford it, which would spawn in the summer, and for more insurance Anderson's sells GSH fry by the hundreds of thousands.
Since costs of doing these things can add up, adding adult Pumpkinseeds or Bluegills from a nearby lake or pond could help start an additional forage base for your LMB, but there are some risks of introducing disease and the State of NY frowns on this practice.
With the Holiday season approaching it would be a good time to collect discarded Christmas tree's, weight them down and when the ice is safe place them on the pond over shallow areas
so they will plant themselves in the spring.
Lot's of time during the winter to read up and plan for your pond, Good Luck and keep us updated.

I stock so tipalia early spring ( water temp above 60 degrees. They have been the food supply for my bass all summer giving my stock of blue gill to grow and span. But thats down here in Texas I did stock some extra blue gills in the spring 6" long for 45 Cents each.
Might see if there someone on the site can get you a better price on the bluegill. Good luck and keep that pole in that boys hands

Sounds like you stocked too many LMB to begin with with little forage base to start off. The LMB hit their biomass max as 6"-10" fish. Unless you removed large numbers of them and soon, they'll spawn and makes things even worse... I would keep every single LMB you catch and next spring I would stock as many and as big a BG as you can source. 5"+ BG would be best... Adding large numbers of LARGE GSH could also help. Canal cats? Would these be brownish as in bullheads or silvery blue as in channel cats?

Thank you for all the replies and sharing your knowledge

Structure I am good, this is a fairly natural pond with lots of submerged trees, stumps, vegetation the pond is fairly old like 50 years, I have owned part of it for the last 6 and have been doing some management for the last 3 years since the dam blew out.

I will be harvesting bass this spring, any recommendations on how to reduce the population is it any fish caught or only the small fish caught.

Here are some questions based on replies and further reading on the site, like most I have limited resources and want to figure out how to best use my time and money to improve the pond.

First would I be better stocking few but large adult BG either purchased or sourced from another ponds. Is there guidance on minimum adult numbers or is it more about time i.e. more adult fish sooner the population will be established. Basically if I get 50 adult fish will that help or am I just wasting my time and money if I don't stock a minimum number of fish.

Second question would it help if I did the Anderson 250,000 GSH fry deal or I am I just wasting money? Would it be better stocking Large GSH again is there a minimum number I should stock?

Judge, I think the minimum depends on your available cash, with a 7 acre pond 50 lbs. of adult GSH would be nice, the anderson GSH fry would be a great back-up and many people think the sheer number of fish make it worth while.
You could also put some extra structure off your property and set-up a feeder with very small pellets to help your bait fish grow.
Maybe Rainman would be able to deliver some large BG to you or atleast let you know who would have them in this area.
Again with limited time to be able to reduce the Bass population thru fishing, fish traps would be your best bet.

Probably the most important concept to keep in mind when adding additional forage to support/improve LMB growth and size is harvest of LMB. There are two parts to the equation - more forage and fewer predators.

For example it is not unheard of for the adding of more forage to result in more skinny LMB (absent harvest) not better conditioned LMB. Same for starting a feeding program - more skinny LMB over time rather than less.

It is not easy to guess correctly at how much more forage and what sizes are needed or to find those fish. I would rather be in the over forage - under predator situation and work toward balance than try it from the other direction (low forage - high predator).

Hey judge
I'm no pro, so please take everyone's advice over mine.

I had a very similar problem in my dad's pond in northern illinois, 7.5 ac, shared property with some people who care, some who could care less, and some that are straight disrespectful of other people's goals with the pond. skinny, shrunken bass (skeletors is what we call them) and no forage base besides some tiny fry that would inevitably be devoured by the starving LMB's.

We did have an established BG population, though, so this is where our paths differ (also, the resolution to our problem was taken out of our hands when someone stocked a massive overpopulation of northern pike [without the consent of the rest of the homeowners] into the pond last november - so our priorities have changed for obvious reasons....something we did worked, though, as the bass are showing weight and we have several size & weight classes of BG now).

In response to your questions about what bass to remove: All of them. In 7 acres, there is no reasonable way that you are going to put a big enough dent to be harmful by fishing them out. and you need to make as big a dent in the population as possible. If i were you i'd go buy 20 tip-ups and a few buckets of roaches and nail as many of them out of the ice as possible this winter. It's a great way to have several lines in the water, and makes a wonderful excuse to sip on your favorite scotch.

Again, im no pro....but ive been there before and that is what did the best for us. My dad kept asking about what size to keep and what to cull (and so i kept asking the pros here)....screw it was the answer. Once in a while we would find the 3lb bass, or maybe a 2lb-er that had a nice belly on him, but 99% of the fish caught were skeletors. Put back anything that is obviously beneficial to the lake (a big chubby bass for instance...), cull everything else you can. Unless you find the one rogue bass that is obviously doing better than every other one, growing and fattening up, take them all out.

Good luck, bud
-Skinny

Judge, I'm dealing with the same kind of scenario for a much smaller (quarter-acre) pond here in Upstate NY. The DEC in NY is super helpful and will give you links to local fisheries and other resources. Check out this page for the DEC office near you:
http://www.dec.ny.gov/about/558.html