Pond Boss Forums AERATION Systems questions Water is really low....help

Hello everybody. The dry weather has continued here in NY, and although that is great for working around the pond, I am now getting concerned about the water height. Since it is a small pond, and it has lost a lot of water this season, it is now rapidly losing water depth due to the lack of rain, warm days and cool nights.
I havnt see. any fish gasping for air....the kids are still catching fish..the fish are still eating their pellets....there is no algae that is using up a lot of oxygen, but the pond is really getting low. I have an aerator that I havnt used much all summer, so I can aerate if need be. I actually thought about using the water from my inground swimming pool in the pond when I winterized my pool, but thought better of it because of chemicals.. Anyway....any suggestions.
Oh....andI Subscribe!
Erik

Wow....What is everyone on vacation? I thought I could rely on you guys for some expertise here.. Anybody out there?

The only thing I can suggest is to add water from your well if it's suitable for the pond. My well water is very close to what the water is like in the pond (chemistry wise) and I've been adding right around 30,000 gallons per day just to keep the pond at 28" below full pool. If I wouldn't have done that, it would have dropped another 2 to 3 feet.

Rain dance, day and night.. I would think well would be your only other option..

My pond is pretty low as well NY,

I have been running air since early June though and I am glad I am. It's 97 here again today and no rain in sight from what they are saying. How cold is it there at this point? Not sure about kicking your air off now it may be a mute point if your water is cold. You don't want to end up super cooling your pond either unless you move your air system into shallow water about 3 feet. Not sure what to tell you NY except pray for rain we all need it it would seem.

What is the ratio of pool water to pond water? I think that you could use the water from your pool assuming that your chlorine residuals were low (<0.5 PPM). If they are high you can leave your pond uncovered until the sun (UV light) removes the chlorine. If you have some way to aerate your pool, this will also help remove chlorine. DO NOT put your pool water in the pond if it has the recommended amount of chlorine. Your fish will not be happy and neither will the bacteria.

Now thats more like it....Thanks guys. I did not use the pool water, and the pool is now closed.
Esshup.....how long do you leave the hose on to deliver that much water? Do you have a seperate well for the pond? I have toyed with the idea of driving a well point to start a shallow well near the pond. Has anybody ever heard or this being done with any good results? What would I do without the pondboss!!!!

Pondguy,

Geeze, about a month ago we made a short trip through the Hudson Valley, up to Albany, and across through the Finger Lakes area. It rained the entire time we were in NY state.

As for driving a well point for water, it depends on a number of factors. I'm assuming that you must be in sand if you can put down a well point. I'm also assuming, if you are in sand, (1) your pond level is at the water table level, (2) you must have either a very large drainage area, or (3) you are getting water from a creek.

If your pond is in sand, and your water comes from (1) or (2) above, I don't think a well point will help. You'll basically be filling your pond from the water table under your pond. If your pond is sealed with a liner or clay, and you are in sand, it may work.

The good thing is -- if you have an easy way of pounding a well point, it would be a quick and inexpensive experiment that could pay big dividends. In my younger days, I helped drive an awful lot of 1-1/2 and 2-inch well points down to about 30 feet in a few hours. With a 3-5 hp horizontal shaft engine, outfitted with an "eccentric" pulley, and about a 40-lb weight, it takes longer to couple 5-foot sections of pipe than it takes to pound the pipe.

Good luck,
Ken

Ken, you said "If your pond is in sand, and your water comes from (1) or (2) above, I don't think a well point will help. You'll basically be filling your pond from the water table under your pond. If your pond is sealed with a liner or clay, and you are in sand, it may work."

That's what I'm doing. I know I'm really only circulating the ground water from the pond, back to the water table, then back to the pond, but if I didn't it would be down 5'-6' instead of 28". I'm pumping it into the pond quicker than it drains out, and evaporates, but just barely. That's the problem with digging in sandy area into the water table and not having clay to seal it.

I have a 4" well drilled down 66'. It has a 1 hp motor, and it is rated for about 28 GPM. For the past week+ I've been running it into the pond almost 100% of the time. I cut down the flow so I have enough water pressure in the house to get water from the tap, and enough to flush the toilets. When I take a shower, I go outside, turn the valve to the pond off and the water goes strictly to the house. When the well was drilled, we planned ahead and put a double length of well screen on the end. It is supposed to flow 100 GPM if I bump up the pump size.

Scott -- great points, with no arguments. As I alluded to, there are many aquifer variables, especially in sand territory, and especially in the Great Lakes basin.

Certainly, the percolation rate differs greatly from region to region. Where I now live in mountainous heavy clay and rock country, it probably takes several years for rain water to get to my faucet. In sand country, the duration from rain to tap is cut to a fraction of that time. But in areas, like around the Great Lakes, the rain water mixes with huge volumes of very old basin water.

As I mentioned, a driven well is an inexpensive experiment that could bring great benefits if it is successful. If it were me, I'd put the sand point as far away from the pond as possible, just to slow down any effects.

Ken

No arguments here! My well is only about 200' from the closest point of the pond, but another 40' deeper. The ground had about 18" of black dirt, transitioning to sand, then to very yellow orange sand, then to a layer of gravel then a layer of gravelly clay. That brings us to 12' below grade. Once past that layer, there is blueish sand mized with clay, then finally at 20' we hit a good blue clay vein. Too bad we didn't hit it at 10'.

Shallow wells here have high iron content, this one at 66' is in good water.

I cant tell you guys how much I appreciate the info. The pond was here when I had the house built. But since the water is so low this year I was able to walk on previously unexplored pond bottom, and I took a handfull of the pond bottom and it certainly looks like clay to me. (I was not very good in science though)
The area I live in is certainly not sandy....In fact the next town over is called "SlateHill". We have a lot of shale in the ground. I think a well point(from wht I have read) will go right through the shale(my shovel does). I seem to remember when the well for the house was dug, I saw what looked like blue dust when they were near the water source. I have also heard that here in Orange County NY you can usually have a shallow well within 100 feet, although most of the well drillers go past the shallow water and dig deeper.

Can you guys point me in the right direction as to where I can get the equiptment I will need? Any pointers would be huge..

Erik

I picked up one of these at an auction. It was used once..... It came with every accessory that was available when the guy bought the kit. I even got the orig. bill of sale with the paperwork.

esshup,
As usual thanks for the reply. I would love to have access to one of those pumps. I know a few neighbors that would use it after me. I will have to investigate price, it didnt seem to be published on the website.
I began running the hose in the pond yesterday, but only for a couple of hours. I will do so for the next few days and see what it does for the water level. Being and avid golfer, and knowing that the season is getting shorter, and shorter......I cannot believe that I m praying for rain.
Erik

It's an actual well drill. It uses a hollow drill stem (type of pipe) and the water or drilling slurry is pumped down it, washing the material up and out of the hole. Once the hole is drilled down to the water, the drill stem and drill bit is removed, you slip the well pipe down the hole, hook up the well pump and off you go.

IIRC, I paid around $600-$700 for it, and the bill of sale including shipping was slightly over $3,000. If you call them they will send you a DVD for free on how it works. I've heard of guys buying one to drill a well on their place, then renting it out and recouping their costs.

esshup,

How easy is the drill rig to operate? Most of the wells in this area are over 150 feet deep. My sisters well is 184 feet deep and 11 years ago cost over 7K. I can think of at least 5-6 deep wells that need to be drilled in the next few years. That could save a pile of cash.

It's really not that bad. The motor does most of the work, all you have to do is make sure that the drill stem is clamped tight before changing it, and especially when removing it from the hole. You have to unscrew it section by section.

Get in touch with them. They'll (or they used to) send out a free DVD on how to use one.

Sandy soils need a bentonite slurry pumped down, which also washes up the fines. They also have bits that can drill thru rock, and material that you re-braze on to refurbish them when they start to wear out.

The hardest thing to do is determine where to stop drilling at. If other wells in the area are at "X" feet deep, that's a pretty good indicatior.

You may want to be careful on installing your own well. Missouri is serious in enforcement of water well laws and I imagine other states are also. ANY well in Missouri must be drilled by a permitted installer to protect the groundwater from contamination.

Here is an excerpt from an article on a single driller that contaminated an entire area's groundwater sources in the Ozarks.

______________________________________

Wilson is no longer permitted with the state of Missouri to operate as a well installation contractor. It is especially important for individuals who contracted with Wilson or his company to contact the department if they have not received a state certification number for their water well.

The Missouri Water Well Driller's Act became law in 1985. It established well construction standards and requires drillers and pump installers to be permitted by the state.

The law was created to protect Missouri groundwater from contamination due to improperly constructed wells, which may act as conduits for near-surface contaminants to enter an aquifer from above. Contaminated groundwater exposes Missourians of all ages to serious health risks that can result from water-borne diseases such as typhoid fever, dysentery, cholera, hepatitis and giardiasis.

The department did not renew Wilson ’s permit as a well installation contractor after the business failed to return to compliance following several outstanding violations.

After wells have been constructed, the driller and pump installer are required to submit a well certification and pump information record to the department. Upon receipt of the records by the department's Wellhead Protection section, the well construction record is examined for adherence to the established minimum construction standards. If the well is constructed properly, a certification number is issued and mailed to the well owner.

For additional information please contact the department’s Division of Geology and Land Survey at 573-368-2165 or 800-361-4827. Learn more about water well drilling at our website dnr.mo.gov/geology/geosrv/wellhd/

Jeez Rex, what the heck are they smoking down there? A 6" plastic well casing is the minimum size for non-commercial non-public water wells?? How the heck can they abide by their guidelines if all the inspection is done AFTER the casing is installed and the well is completed? i.e. grouting the outside of the casing must be 30 feet deep. I thought California was bad - they (at least in So. Cal.) want to put a meter on every well to charge you for the water.

Thanks to all the rain my pond level is in good shape again. I had started to run the hose for 3 hours a day before the rain began, but thankfully I wrapped up the hose today. I only wish I got some more structure projects done before the rain came.