Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Creating the food chain Snails, Redears and Kingfishers

Attention Pondmeisters!...

I would appreciate any input I can get.

What do snails eat?
What type of water chemistry do snails like?
Can redears grow huge on just snails?
Has any pondmeister seen a really big redear that was caught from a small body of water?
Without an avian vector like Kingfishers, will snails still contribute to parasitic infections of fish?
Who's a good person to contact that might deliver (ship) me one to two thousand 1-inch redears next May or June?
Thanks in advance!!!!

By the way, my redears love the nightcrawlers that I've acquired. I just can't afford this strategy forever.

I would like to know how to grow big red ears?? What kind of enviroment do they like?? From what I understand they like deep water.

Shoot... Redear get bigger than coppernose from what I understand.. will they eat pellets?

Bruce,

Here is what I know, which is not much:

Snails eat algae, aquatic plants, bacteria, bottom detrius, etc. I have also seen them feeding on dead fish carcasses. Bill Cody should be able to back this up or correct me.

Not sure about water chemistry but I would assume they need calcium in the water to build their shells so it would seem hard water is a plus.

I would assume redears can grow huge on snails as it is a main part of their diet. I'm sure you know they have crusher teeth at the back of their buccal cavity to crush shells.

See this site for info on the relationship of the new world record redear and snails:
http://realindy.com/recordfish.htm

I have mounted a 2 lb. redear/redear hybrid from a private pond recently.

I would not think if an avian vector was started that the cycle could complete itself, but I could be wrong. Since I have prevented Great Blue Herons from wading into my pond with stakes and 8o lb. braided line I have seen a marked reduction in grubs in my fish. In fact I haven't seen any lately at all. Once my water cleared up the massive amounts of snails seeme to disappear also. I believe that is due to the bluegills and perch finding them more easily but that is a hunch.

As far as getting redears I would see if you can find a hauler to deliever you some feed trained redear from Ridgeview Fin Farm in Ridgeville corners Ohio. Bill Cody and I think he is training them in an RAS and may also be doing this with black crappies.

You're welcome to use my hauling tank if you have a good size pickup to pull the trailer as long as you can get it back to me. Furthermore you are welcome to stay at my house which is not far from the Ridgeview Fin Farm. We can trade stories on attempting to grow large fish.

I have been doing some research on these fish and it seems it is little know of these guys. So you say it is rare to have them pelleted trained?? Has anyone else had Redears trained on pellet feed?

This is the only farm that I know that claims to have done it.

Cecil, would you tell me more about your braided line method of excluding herons from your pond?
I would like to know the the distance between stakes that you've found to be optimal. Where, in relation to the waterline, should the stakes be placed. How high from the ground is the line put and how is the line best secured to the stakes? Is the line stretched extremely taut? Do you think that treated, thirty-six inch long 2x2 stakes would be adequate or would you recommend a different stake material or length?
I believe that you've posted on this before, but I think that few details were in the post, and I'd certainly prefer to benefit from your experience than to have to free-lance it, if you don't mind.

Very, very kind of you to offer use of your equipment to move fish! I think if we continue to exchange information and experiences (and failures) that our chances of raising big fish go up and up.

My water has an extremely high hardness levels. 189.2 mg/L CaCO3 to be exact. One of my lined ponds which hasn't been stocked yet has tens of thousands of snails already. It seems plausible that they are eating algae as you suggested, because there isn't a whole lot else for them. This pond is BEGGING for redears. I might have to find a way to sequester one area of the pond to keep the snails from being completely wiped out.

Pellet trained would be even better of course, because the redears would have some forage diversity.

Was that redear hybrid by design or an accident? I wish I knew where some redears hybrids might be available too but there's not much to be found on the internet.

I wish I could remember a little more from college about aquatic invertebrates, but this pond has some smallish insects, maybe 4mm or so that have a pair of "oars" that they propel themselves about with. They look like something a centrarchid might find tasty, but I don't know what the heck they are. Just guessing...but they look like they might be a creature that would like to eat zooplankton.

Dudley,

The 80 lb. test braided line is bright yellow in color and I ordered it from Cabelas. For stakes I just bought furrow stripping from a local lumber yard and cut them to length and also cut points on the ends. Most of the stakes I cut about 18 inches but some I cut some longer for deeper water. I spaced them about 20 feet apart and the line is wrapped around drywall screws at the top of the stakes. It's a continuous run all the way around the pond. I have one row of stakes on the bank before the water, and another row in the water, and sometimes yet anothe row farther out if the water there is shallow. But I had my pond dipped a few years ago with ver steep banks which discourages herons too. The trick is to stop them from wading in the water side of the last row of braided line is too deep and steep for them to wade.

Not sure how high the braided line is above the water, but it is low enough that the herons can't go under and high enough they can't step over. It's even stopped visits from Canada Geese as although they can land in the water they find it very annoying they can't step in and out of the water. However a couple of mallards don't seem to have too much a problem with it, but they are infrequent vistors anyway and I don't mind a couple of ducks.

The height and spacing it pretty much common sense and possible trial and error. You should be able to produce a taunt line all the way around your pond which is important.

I did have one heron that stood on my floating cages and dock to fish and refused to go away, but he seemed to have disappeared one day! Wonder what happened to him?

What did you do to get the snails in your pond?? Will they hurt other fish? What kind of problems do they posse?
What is the contact for: Ridgeview Fin Farm?? to get these pelleted trained redears?

Bruce,

Don't know much about the redear redear/bluegill hybrid. I make it a point not to always believe fishermen either. Many of them are liars!

Another option is for me to ship you redear fingerlings overnight in oxygen bags. They would be stressed and you would probably lose some, but you could end up with some redears that you couldn't get anywhere else. I would think with the right additives and salt, and low enough of a temperature and keeping density down, it just might work. I have a Fed Ex terminal near me. Sometimes you just have to take a gamble.

Your insect sounds like a "waterboatman" which is at type of water beetle if I remember right. I am rusty on invertebrates too. I aced a class on identification of aquatic invertebrates, and even got the highest score in the class, but I too have forgotten a lot.

Speaking for myself I'm not sure how they came, but it's probably the same way aquatic vegatation come --- primarily by birds, and it is possible they came from the transfer of new water that came with fish transplants.

Snails can be part of a parasite cycle which produces the yellow and black grubs we see and other parasites in fish. However, for the most part these parasites are just unsightly, and the fish seem to be able to tolerate them well. You should be able to find all the information you need on this by doing a word search on the internet.

Ceicle, what kind of redears do you have for shipping??ones that eat pelleted food?? How much are they??

I personally don't have a redears. In fact although I raise fish to sell at trophy size to other taxidermists, selling fish for stocking is not what I do. I purchase pellet trained fish and grow them out.

The following hatchery in Northwest Ohio says he (Bob Hesterman) will have feed trained redears for sale next spring. I was simply volunteering to box some of them up with oxygen and attempt to ship Fed Ex if Bruce was interested.

The fish farm is Ridgeview Fin Farm in Ridgeville Corners Ohio. Here is the website:

http://www.ridgeviewfinfarm.com/

Don't know if he'd be willing to ship them that way or not. Many hatcheries won't do it as it is too risky.

Cecil! Yes, yes, yes!!

If you help me with the redear shipping I will repay the favor. I'm thinking that early in the fall of 2005 I will have some pellet trained bluegill that will be entirely the progeny of pellet trained adults that are all over 400g. I could send some over to you. It's well worth the risk.

...but let's not talk about it over the internet. Then everyone will know our evil plan!

Bruce,

Sounds like a plan. Over and out!

Ridgeview Fin Farm will only have a few hundred pellet trained redears available this spring and will definately be sold out early if they are not aleady preordered or sold. He did this just as a fun challenging project and not for major sales or production. I don't think he had 1000 redears in the whole tank he was working with.

I raised a cage of about 40 -60 2" redears one time that I trained to eat pellets. At the end I had about a dozen the survived for release into the pond. Of those I had two that reliably came and ate pellets. They grew to 11" long before I rebuilt the pond. Pretty poor results. Repetiton may have improved my success rate.

CECIL - Any idea what the large hybrid redear was crossed with? Any features that might have hinted what the other parent was?

Bruce your insect with "oars"or paddles are either water boatmen OR backswimmers. I can supply scientific genera if necessary. Both are similar yet different and are "true bugs or Hemiptera, not beetles. They dominate a pond without fish present where I have seen densities of up to 1 or 2 per gallon of water. Fish find them palatable and easy to catch.

Pond snails are bascally omnivorus and as they slide along they scrape the underwater surface pretty clean with a special mouth part called a radula. However the majority of what snails eat is composed of a whold community of organisms called periphyton that is usually dominated by different genera and species of attached algae.

Did I miss any questions?

Seem like these Redears could really be a hot commodity :rolleyes: ...The main reason is they get so big...bigger than coppernose. I will try to get about 1000 fish this spring..

Bill,

I believe this fish was part bluegill. It was more rounded than a typical redear although all the other features were that of a redear. I find that the trophie redears I get in although they are bigger than bluegills they tend to be more elongated than bluegills.

Bruce I don't really have an interest in the feed trained redears for my own use. I believe I have first dubbs on them so I will get you as many as I can.

Many thanks, Cecil. I think I'll try your braided line heron fence.

so....we're talking floating pellets that these redears train to?

Yipper!

Bruce -- just a couple of other thoughts after reading through this string.

Size? Well, when I worked down in Emporia, KS, we got redears to at least 1.5 pounds in a 3-acre pond. I can't remember seeing one that ever honestly made 2 pounds. Of course, 1.5 pounds was a darn nice fish!

Second, I assume your pond might be near Lincoln?? The NE Game and Parks biologists say that redears can be introduced as fingerlings in the southern part of the state. In the northern part of the state, they say adults are needed to get the population established. Being a "southern" fish, the little guys don't survive well that first winter, while the adults apparently can make it and will be able to reproduce in the future.

Dave

Dave,

I've got one real good advantage going for me, though. My lined ponds, which happen to have all of the snails, will receive about 8 gpm of ground water throughout the winter. Since my well delivers water at 55 F. then I think it may reduce a little of the wintering stress. Redears are usually introduced around here into newly renovated public waters and seem to exhibit excellent growth for 3-4 years, then they seemingly "disappear" and are displaced by bluegill. The Nebraska state record is 1 lb. 10 oz.

What do you think would be a desirable minimum length to get these fish to before cold weather sets in?

Hi Bruce. I can’t help much more, but I’ll toss a couple of guesses your way.

First, if your pond is in southern Nebraska, I’ll bet you won’t have a problem with overwinter survival on redears. We actually got some adult redears from the Nebraska biologists, and stocked them into a couple of small impoundments (one near Sioux Falls and one near Rapid City). Based on what the Nebraska biologists told us, we’re hoping we may be OK in the southern part of South Dakota. We stocked them this spring, and they really grew by this fall. We’ll see how they survive the winter.

I’m not sure what to say about sizes of fish to stock. I must sheepishly admit that I can’t recall what else is in your lined ponds. If largemouth bass are already there, then bigger is better, eh?? If fish are not present, then small ones may very well survive, but large ones would more likely survive? How’s that for high-level reasoning? :-)

Dave

the redears out of my 1 acre lake are bigger than my hand, and roughly weigh about 8oz+.. fun to catch, and they are bright yellow~

oh and they are not pellet fed, but you can kill em on a green tailed mister twister~..bgills avg about the same out of my 2acer lake~

chris