Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Raising Forage and Bait heres my forage tank system

John the only short term possible help I can think of is a 20 or 30 percent water change, hope everything works out.

Agreed. You might also grab a big box of zeolite when you get a chance too. Good insurance to have on hand.

I don't waste time with 20-30% water changes---do 90%+ Twice!

DON"T reduce the ammonia---ELIMINATE it!

Water bad enough to stress tilapia with ammonia is caustic enough to actually dissolve the spine margins of the dorsal and tail fins of tilapia.

Here is what the fluidized bed sand filters I use allow me to do...2000 5 inch tilapia in a single 150 gallon aquarium---12 fish died in 10 days.

You're saying that you kept 66# of fish in a 150 gallon tank for 10 days?

How much food were you throwing at them?

And what kind(s) of food?

With the right filter setup and pump. A typical starter RAS would handle 1/2 lb/gallon at 2%/body weight feed per day. You can however over feed and cause some major problems. That is why it is always nice to have a separate "Emergency Drain" for such occasions. The big boy's with the "Just Keep-em-Wet" systems can easily do 2lb+ per gallon.

If one wanted to raise or hold baitfish on the cheap. A bio-wheel filter or two would do the trick. The old 330's could easily handle 30 dozen or so 2.5-3" shiners in less than 15 gallons with minimal water changes. The new ones would probably do more.

JohnK:

What is the surface area of your bio-balls, just for one? I can crunch some numbers and give you a good idea on what you can raise.

A couple of suggestions: (as mentioned by others)
- Get a test kit and monitor

- Do some water changes on a regular basis as required. You may have to drain the system several times.

- Zeolite is a friend in early startup if stocking fish, so get enough. It can be reused later.

- Bio Bug inoculations are not always successful. Shelf life and storage before you get it are the main factors. There is a place in Maryland you can get fresh bug's from, but not on the cheap.

- If you want to. I would like to see your solids filter separated from your bio-filter. Reason is, in a recycle system it is imperative to remove solids very effectively, and on a regular basis. If not, you will never be able to control the Nitrogen Cycle. You will be culturing unwanted bacteria, like Heterotrophic and a high number of anaerobic bacteria. You want a healthy colony of aerobic bacteria. Otherwise, it will really stink while producing Hydrogen Sulfide and Methane, to name a few. Also, put your bio-balls in mesh bags. That way you can take them out and shake off the slough. (stagnant slimy stuff) Otherwise, the not so good bacteria will take over, killing the filter you really want.

- If you do decide to have separate filters. At least place an air stone in your submerged bio-filter. The good bug's need oxygen, plus this will help degass the system of CO2. You need to remove CO2 for your water to accept Oxygen. Water is a natural sink for CO2.

- Need a bigger pump in the future.

- Take it a step at a time

The list is quite exhaustive, beyond this post, and I hope I did not make your head hurt. But, with the other forum members suggestions and help, you are going to have a cool system.

Damn rainman, you are my hero. That is incredible density. I agree about the ammonia. Fish just don't do well swimming around in their own urine. Can you enlighten me about your sand filters, photos, websites any info would be appreciated.

Holding fish for 10 days with multiple 90% water changes is quite a different animal -vs- raising fish at the same density or even a bit higher for a starter system.

Really not that difficult. About as difficult as a productive garden.

Anything can be difficult until you have successfully accomplished it. I have had too many projects blow up in my face to think otherwise.

JKB, Tilapia are often raised at 5 pounds per gallon with heavy filtration. It's not easy by any means, but it is no longer uncommon either with space/cost restrictions in commercial settings. I also only do weekly water changes with this density and once every 2 months at densities under1 pound per gallon of water....tilapia are vastly fifferent than any other species of fish to raise. Filter cleaning at this densithy is a daily chore or clogging occurs. My water changes are only made for removing nitrate buildups. I only change outside of my regular intervals if I see a reduced interest in the Tilapia's typical voracious feeding frenzy----You get soaked putting feed in this tank!!!!

Scott, It is 245 pounds of tilapia in a 150 gallon aquarium....with the water diplaced by the fish, there is actually a little less than 120 gallons of water in the tank. The fish only average 5 inches but there are several hundred 7"+ fish for small pond stocking orders that come in.

Dave, I use nothing but Purina Aquamax. I use 5D00 fry powder, 5D01 Fry crumble, 5D04 1/16" sinking pellets, and 5D09 3/16" floating "Dense 4000" floating pellets.---5D00, 01,and 04 are all carnivorous blends and the Dense 4000 is an omnivoous blend specially for intensely stocked systems---All blends are COMPLETE diets---these are NOT intended as a supplement in a pond setting that would have a natural food source available. I feed between 2 and 8 pounds per day Dave, depending on what mood I'm in----I do NOT want these fish to grow! I keep them healthy, but keep the temps low and feed just enough to stop canniblism and keep growth at a minimum while maintaining their health and incredible disease immunity.

Pond Frog,

In the tank pictured, I have a 40watt Uv sterilizer, 1 pentair FB-900 Fluidized Bed Sand Filter for ammonia/Nitrite removal, and 2 Marineland Magnum 350 cannister filters for solids removal and flow. For aeration, I only have two small bubblers that run 24/7.

When I put a huge new bioload in this system, it takes about 3 days for the bacteria to explode in growth in the sand filter before they can remove all the ammonia and food loads.

Bioballs are Okay for most setups, but sand filters have about 10,000 times the surface area and by bouncing around constantly in a fluidized state, dead bacteia is constantly knocked off the sand and a fresh bacteria growth substrate is always available---Bioballs are eficiant for only a short time before the dead bacteria reduces the available area for them to grow on.

Here is the 3 filters, before one went bad---you will see the Black case of the UV sterilizer at the bottom of the picture on the wall...The picture also shows containers of nearly unused Zeolite in the yellow cartons. Aquarium salt is in the blue carton.


This picture shows the lighting and when it was "planted" to raise CNBG and some FH and CC for fun...For Tilapia, I use NOTHING inside the tank to make them easier to net.


This final picture shows the Pentair FB-900 Fluidized Bed Sand filter (clear plastic with a blue top and bottom hanging on the back of the tank) and more plumbing and valving to control flow.

Quite a setup.

Rainman, looks like you have a PHD in plumbing.

AP, If by PHD, you mean Pretty Hastily Done, You are correct sir.



Honestly, I have to refrain from target practicing in the basement with all those muskrats behind the tank!

Saa weet rainman. I am not very good at that type of arrangement yet. But the way things are going here, I will have to be soon. Thank you so much for the awesome write up and photos. I have a lot to learn, but have the eagerness to get there.

My thoughts too.

Good news!!!! , my tilapia are eating like crazy! the water is crystal clear and the fish seem very happy. Thanks for all the good info guys. If and when I can afford to change my filter set-up I will post. I am so glad they are acting normal again. The filter has a chemical haze on the top of it's water. I think the filter took all of the chemical out of the fish tank and broke it down for the most part. Obviously something went right because they are tearing up the food!!!

JKB ,I have no clue what the surface area is. There are about 3500 balls the size of a golfball with around 50-100 small spines sticking out of each ball. Rainman, that looks awesome I will have to look into the fluidized sand filter thanks for the great info. Weissguy, thanks for your advise also and the great fish that seem to be doing well for now. Let's hope there are no catastrophies like last year.

Rainman you are my hero! Sweet setup.

Sorry for chiming in late on the bog filter, but I had to put in a recommendation for planting lettuce, herbs, even tomatoes to help filter out nitrates. I had a lot of fun last summer with a couple 100 gallon tanks and 40' of scrap plastic drain tile.

Here are plans for a DIY fsf. I am in the process of making one of these so I cant comment on how effective they are, but it is less expensive than buying one.

http://www.aquariumlife.net/projects/diy-filter/10.asp

Now that's funny... I don't care who you are!

Bio balls work pretty well, and they are commonly used in greenwater growing systems for tilapia where other bio filtration methods would be difficult to impossible to use because of the massive collection of algae in the filters. Ideally, your bio ball filter should be it's own separate unit for easy cleaning and backwashing, but I think your filter will do fine for what you are wanting from it. Fluidized sand filters work tremendously well in my experience, but you have to be incredibly careful with them for the first 30-40 days of use as they can actually cause more issues than they are meant to fix in this time period. I have the same FSF as Rainman. They are pretty slick if used correctly, and for under $100 you can't really go wrong. A lot of people talk of tank-wide fish kills using FSF filters, and this is primarily due to the fact they didn't cycle them properly before putting massive loads on them. As long as they are properly cycled, they have a very unique ability of adapting to the bio load in your system extremely quickly. Not a lot of biofilters are so flexible, particularly for the footprint.

No problem John. Make sure to give me a call or email if you have any problems/issues. This new system you've got going should be a lot safer and reliable than the previous one. You'll have to come out to my new facility when it's finished. It will be geared primarily to hatchery type functions, but there will still be plenty of growout tanks too.

well so far all is well in the garage system although my pump quit working already. I purchased a submersible 2400 gal per hor pump that cleared up the water within 5 minutes, wow what a difference. I lost thirty or so of the little guys in the 20 gal today. I think my daughter has been over feeding so I quickly changed 80 percent of the water and the rest seem to be doing ok. I plan to move the big ones to the second tank in the garage tomorrow if all goes well.

I would love to come see your new system when it's up and running. Let me know, Thanks John

Hey John!

Just thought I'd bump this topic and see how things are going with your system. Fill us all in!