Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Creating the food chain Pond for forage only

What kind of forage fish would be compatable with fatheads in a pond designated just to raise baitfish? I am building a new pond & will be stocking smallmouth & trout. I want to use my old pond for raising the forage for the new pond.
Would Birdle or golden shiners work? Also what are musquito minnows & where can they be purchased? Would they be suitable?

Ric

Mosquito fish do not get bigger than 2"-2.5". Even though they are very prolific I think they are poor forage fish in a pond because they are very predatory on other fish fry which are abt the size of mosquito larvae. Try golden shiners or another local shiner or maybe bluegills. See topic Bluegills & Fatheads under Types Of Fish To Choose.

Thanks Bill,
I've been following that thread also, actually I'm trying to keep up with all the great info being offered here you guys are good! I don't think there is a better forum on the net than this on any subject! BTW .. I've been waiting for the books & mag. from Pond Boss & found out today my wife never placed the order so I did it on line today.
The Bgill I don't want for fear they may get in my main pond which will be down stream of the forage pond. There will only be Smallmouth & Trout & I'm afraid they won't control the Bgill. I don't have any experience with the musquito minnows so thanks for that info. I am considering golden shiners. How large do they get? Will the adult golden shiners become predators?
Ric

Hey Ric, what other native minnows do you have in your area? Knowing what you have currently existing in your area or can have in the area will help with other potential recommendations.

The only minnow I know of is a "horny head" or "creek chub" & I know I don't want them as I've seen them 8 - 10". That's a good point though I'll have to do some research.
Thanks,
Ric

ric, there is a lot of great info in other posts on this site regarding shiners.

I wouldn't put bgill in a pond upstream of your SMB & trout pond. There is a lengthy thread here about golden shiners as forage. Try a search of Questions and Observations and both Fish categories. Found it; It's in Creating a Food Chain. I have golden shiners that are 8"-9" long in my pond with SMB and y. perch.

There are not doubt smaller adult sized, local, native shiners that will also spawn in a small pond. Do some research. Possibly a local game warden or good biology teacher could advise which shiners are present in your area. Some homework or I can provide you with spawning habits. Minnow traps in streams will catch your broodstock. Another good info source would be a good down-home or mom&pop bait store who collect their own minnows as bait.

Thanks jb & Bill,
I have read I want to say ALL the post here though I'm sure I need to read them again.
Bill I've seined & trapped many minnows for fishing but don't know what I've caught or if I want them in my pond. I know I want fatheads, begining to think I don't want golden shiners if they get 8 - 9" .. what about Birdle shiners .. how big do they get?
Thanks again, gotta do more research,
Ric

I recomend a website like this (inoperative) , http://www.gen.umn.edu/faculty_staff/hatch/fishes/natural_history.html

There are many complete listings of fish by state, some better than this. But they can tell you a lot about fish you may have never heard of.
The best way to find a directory is do a google search for the scientific name of a fish.

Here's a link to help identify minnows that I added to my favorites quite a while back showing all kinds of minnows from Virginia Tech:

http://www.cnr.vt.edu/efish/families/fathead.html

They have 25 other fish galleries too, and there are many other outstanding university web sites also.

Horn chubs or Horned Dace minnows do get large and will predatorily (is that a word) feed like most predatory gamefish will, once they gain some size. I have caught them since I was a wee lad, in the creek that ran past my folks house, used to buy #18 hooks and use a single maggot (collected by a wee lad, of course) or even large black ant larvae. I also have personally seen them and caught them 18 inches long in Northern Quebec lakes. If they weren't Horned Daces they were a spitting image, and yes, 18 inches, very heavy, fat, and quite predatory, although I'd never eat one, or put them in my pond, unless I had Walleye or Pike in it.

Ric one question I pose is are you going to only have forage fish as a food item? Have you thought about trying crawdads? Also you might want to consider threadfin shad. I'm north of you a little ways, and Im not sure if they work here but they probably do where you are at.

Why do you want something to go with the fatheads? If you're not looking for anything bigger, fatheads will probably out produce anything else.

Bryan,
Hopefully someday I will have some nice size trout .. I'm shooting for at least 10 lbs. In order to reach that goal I figure I can get more growth with a combo of small & medium size forage fish.

Trinton,
I will be putting crawdads in & I was hoping to find a source for small freshwater shrimp .. (grass shrimp, glass shrimp) or whatever they're called. Threadfin shad do sound intresting have to look into that some more. Thanks!

Paul & Ty,
I bookmarked both sites .. Thanks!!

Have you looked into darters? They are often found with trout. I have johnny darters in my fish tank, cool little fish. There are 135 species of darters, all of them are lacking a swim bladder or have a very small one. Some do well in "pools" or small ponds others require flowing water. The Iowa and rainbow darters are also some of the most beautiful fish to be found in NA.
Also the central mudminnow is a great baitfish, and is also found with trout and darters. They make a great baitfish because they are capable of breathing air! They can live in an intermittent stream or a bait bucket with no D.O., they aren't very common in bait shops but I know that they are sold as bait where they are available. C. Mudminnows max out at 7" supposedly, I have two in my fish tank, niether is over 3".

TyW33 - I have Eastern Mudminnows that have hit more then 6 inches in length. They are indeed very hardy, the smaller they are the hardier they are as well. I have had them get sucked up by my water pump when draining the pond, laid out in the wet grass for hours and still survive.

Darters are a great thing, though I am not sure hwo much success you would have finding a local supply unless you trap them yourself... and even that may be a hit and miss affair?

Tyw33, Pottsy,
Thanks for the tip on Mudminnows! I looked them up & want some! I'll be setting some traps in local streams being careful to get a positive ID on what I catch. I've seined mudminnows before but didn't know what I had. Also have seen what I now think were a dace with lots of red on them in my sein. Haven't been able to find a picture of a darter yet. I'm going to have to get an aquarium to hold some minnows over until their identified.
Been busy with building the new pond. Unsuccesfully tried to drain the old pond twice. Will have to try again before I fill the new one.

Found some pics of darters! The blacksided darter looks like a minnow I see frequently in trout streams. I've seen it building nests out of gravel. This could be fun catching & raising minnows!
Ric

minnows are facinating critters, one thing though... be gentle on the darters and check local regulations. In MN you can not collect any darters with out a speciale permit. I didn't bother since I was just getting a trio of jonny darters (the most common darter in the state).

muddminnows have a black bar at the base of thier tail, they will change color alot, but that black bar is always there. Muddminnows are actualy distantly related to the pikes.

Thier are tons of diffrent dace, all collectively called minnows (which they are). Make sure you get a posative ID on the "dace", pearl dace and juvenile creek chubs look alot alike. Dace is a very generic term, make sure you know what your catching and reading about.

Pottsy, What else is in your pond with the mudminnows? From what I remeber they don't lay alot of eggs but the female guards them, I have no idea how prolific they are. Being a soft rayed, cylindrical shaped minnow with the potential for use as bait I would love to stock some in my pond in the future. To make a long question short, Do muddminnows stand up to predation or are they going to be eatten up with in two years?