Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Creating the food chain SMB or WE as top fish

I checked a bit with the state (in Washington) and got some good information about what can be stocked. they mentioned both WE and SMB as option instead of LMB. I think that it may be wise to plan the shape, depth and overall size of the pond around the fish species I want to introduce. Any idea about those two in addition to YP and a cat species?

Pond is located on 5 acres, Most likely going to be under an acre in size. Thanks in advance!

Hey MWC

Interesting choice of species - I like how you think.

I'm just beginning my projects so I can't speak from a wealth of experience, but based on my preferences I would suggest SMB and YP. I have no experience with WE in ponds - from everything I've read they will most likely not reproduce, so periodic supplemental stockings would be necessary.

The other issue you're facing is establishing a forage base. High fecundity of BG and PS makes them a bad match for SMB, YP and WE - most experts believe predation can't keep up and overpopulation becomes an issue. You are looking at doing some heavy duty culling through angling, trapping or seining at that point.

I love RES and they could be a panfish option for you - but not certain they would survive in your winters - unless you in a temperate rain forest zone? What zone are you in? Bear in mind RES won't provide enough forgage for your predators alone, but would provide an additional species to target.

For my SMB/YP pond I am relying on GSH to serve as my primary forage base. Some experts believe they will remain JUST ahead of predation enough to establish and maintain a permanent presence. I don't know what Shiner species would flourish in your area - but Shiners are a solid choice for SMB and YP forage.

Will you be feeding? This will help take pressure off your forage as well.

Have you ever considered HSB or adding just Male BG to the pond? Just some ideas of species that coexist well together and add another dimension to angling.

Hope this helps - maybe someone who's actually caught a SMB from their ponds might want to weigh in at this point....

WE are in an interesting area, two warm for trout to be tasty, they will live but I cant stand trout from water above 60 degrees and two cold for a lot of warm water species. I know they have WE in quite a few of the ponds on the main land (we are on whidbey island) but I havent caught any locally. Now we rarley ice over for more than a week at a time, but summer water temps are likley to hover under 70. Are temperature is so moderate it makes it very unlike most of the country. YP inhabit just about every puddle in the area and I know of a couple of minnow species that should do quite well. We plan on harvesting the lake for food but it would be nice to have some natural reproduction with minimal cost in restocking and feeding. I know we are going to have to do both but I really want to creat a complete food chain... right up to my dinner plate.

With the conditions you have in your pond, game fish like SMB and WE will probably have slow growth rates. Trout would be ideal as it seems the water temp of your pond will be in their ideal range much of the year. Perhaps the reason why the Pacific Northwest has such a low number of native fishes is the climatic conditions are so unfavorable...

Yeah we head to the east side of the state for big fish, Some great trout fishing in the large resevoirs but I grew up spoiled on sierra nevada rainbows. Cleans water this side of montana and rarely over 50 even on the summers. Man that trout tastes amazing.

Your right about slow growth rates, especially for LMB. I think i could get SMB to grow ok with a good forage base. We have a lake about 50 miles away that is only a bit colder that grows then to 3 lbs on average. Maybe I could get a get the same strain. I'm really unfamiliar with WE but from the data the state had on water types and temps it seems like it could work. I know they would handle the winters at least.

Regarding your stocking of perch, do you plan to get them from a fish farm or the wild? I ask because farm raised perch (YP) are often pellet trained. Pellet trained YP will result in the best growth and most production for table use. YP and walleye or SMB are good possibilities. Walleye will give you more control of management. SMB will spawn and result in continually adding more predators to deplete the forage food items (minnows shiners) which can result in slower growth of YP. YP prefer ample smaller minnows as forage. If non pellet trained YP are used, then emphasize an ample forage fish base to provide lots of forage to sustain good growth esp for YP. Stunted, slow growing YP are not much fun. IMO you don't really want large or fast predators so they stay on the small side and consume primarily the smaller fish YP & minnows/shiners.

I checked and FHM and g.shiners are in WA. I would also strongly explore obtaining some redside shiners (Richardsonius balteatus) and Olympic mud minnows (2-3.4")(Novumbra hubbsi) as supplimental forage fish for your pond. Food diversity is important to growing good YP esp if another predator is present. You will probably have to get these fish from state waters. Check with the DNR or local Univ Fishery profs for where in WA they can be found. Redside shiners (6"-7") are primarily a stream species with a wide temperature and trophic (nutrient) tolerance. Their habit of depositing demersal adhesive eggs on gravel, rocks and vegetation indicates to me you could be lucky and get them to spawn in your pond if conditions are acceptable. Stream current may not be a requirement for eggs to hatch. Olympic mudminnows spawn in shallow water often on vegetation and probably in pond conditions. Since you live offshore collecting fish could be a problem for you. Where there is a will, there is usually a way.

Hmmm, maybe I can do a cat species as top fish and try my hand a producing really big perch. Thanks for the info on forage species, I figure it will be next spring when forage species go in, and the following spring when i have some decisions to make about food species!

Whidbey Island, my sub did some maneuvers there out of Bummerton. Almost bit the big one going through straits of Juan De Fuca. Most people up there had smallish LMB. Really more trout than anything. I was too busy catching salmon and butts in the sound to mess with pond fishing. I got skunked up there too many times, just could never get the pond fish to hit. Great crabbin also. I miss Pike's more than anything. Trout won't work on the island?

Trout work fine, I just have an aversion to the flavor of trout out of ponds. Too much time fishing High Sierra creeks. I do plenty of fishing in the salt, just looking to have something pretty to look at out the window and fresh fish for the dinner table whenever I get the urge for it. Also love to teach the kids the fun of panfish.

I'm still here fishing the high sierra, but that stanford lawsuit is going to knock a lot of stream planting out. That fishery without planting will fade fast.

If I remember you need a WDFW permit to plant. Also you have one of the best trout hatcheries around right down the road from you. In Orting. Bill's fishin hole. Used to be Troutlodge U Fish. They have those 3N triploid rainbows. Supposed to be fine eatin even in warmer waters and get to be 20LBS. If I'd stayed up there instead coming back to CA that was my plan. They still only charge a $1 a fish for 7-9" I think. Not sure if that is triploid price though. Those things are amazing. I envy you.

I was not aware of that hatchery, thanks for the heads up. I may have to adjust my plans. You know the best thing about plans is that they are free. With any luck I can lessen the financial pain if I have a good plan.

http://www.troutlodge.com/index.cfm?pageID=7AD69550-3048-7B4D-A96A3E339B98CCC9

Been around since end of WWII. Just outstanding trout. Perfect for your climate. You get a 20 lb as those triploids just eat and grow. And the prices are unbeatable. Just something local to look at that might save you a ton of money, get you your beloved trout.