Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Types of fish to choose Small Pond Advice

First of all, glad to be here. I'm an absolute neophyte except for what I've researched and learned over the last year or two. I've been scouring the internet for pond managwement advice for over 18 mos. and finally found this site about a month ago. Great stuff here! I've read all I can, subscribed to the magazine, and read the Basic Pond Management Manual. I'm looking for the some advice with regards to stocking my two small ponds.

About the ponds: I bought an 18 acre property in the spring of 2008. There are two ponds on the property which were completely dry after a 3 year drought but are now at full pool after a few nice rains. So there are currently no fish. (I do suspect water levels to be generally more stable as this drought was one of the worst regionally in several generations. I've had a couple of folks come by and tell me they used to fish these ponds many years ago). One pond is 260 x 80ft= 1/2 acre with a maximum depth of around 12 ft. Water visibility is at least 12 inches (very rough test with a stick a couple of days after a heavy rain) and there is excellent wind exposure. The other pond sits about 30 yds away, is round shaped, measures about 0.2 acres, and has a maximum depth of around 8 ft. There is a PVC drain pipe draining overflow from the small pond which I believe drains into the larger one. The larger one drains overflow via a couple of PVC pipes into a nearby ditch. There is very little habitat at the bottom of either pond (wish I would have found this site before the rains came!).

My goals: Recreational fishing for my 3 sons, myself and our friends. I'd like my 3 year old to be able to catch some sunfish in a couple years and my two older sons, who will be teenagers when fish will be ready to harvest, to be able to catch an occasional bass. I'd also like to stock some catfish for sport and an occasional meal.

According to Bob's book, his algorithm suggests that any pond less than 1 acre should stick with CC, but I've seen plenty of threads here that suggest otherwise. I suspect based on what I've read here that I would need to stick with nonreproducers. I'm thinking HBG, CC and a few HSB. I don't mind restocking every few years. I don't mind feeding with an automatic feeder in one pond or the other. I don't plan to aerate right now unless oxygenation bacame a problem in the future (expense, lack of electricity).

My Questions:

1. Are my goals reasonable, can I have it all? If so, how?
2. If I decide to stock one species exclusively in the smaller pond, do I have to worry about contamination via the drainage pipe?
3. How soon can I get started? Enough reading already, time for some action!

Howdy lapdawg, love the handle, and welcome!!

Your goals are laudible and totally doable. Lots of suggestions will be coming your way from extremely erudite and experienced pondmeisters, and JHAP may chime in as well.

As a neophyte myself, I hesitate to make any suggestions, but based on my comprehensive review of the literature available, I think this is one situation in which I would avoid muskies and northern pike.

Again, welcome and thanks for posting.

Hello Lapdawg and welcome to Pond Boss. Great first post! Hang on for some expert help.

You posted that whilst I was reading and preparing a welcome!!!

Iphone warned me you were preparing to post. Got to protect the fingerlings!

Lapdawg,
Lest JHAP and I get this post terminally off track, a couple thoughts on your situation.

Probably the simplest strategy requiring the least active management would be that which you outlined, some combination of cats, HSB, and some type of sunfish.

The cats could go in either pond. If it were me, I would put them in the smaller pond, possibly with some BG, and feed regularly-you'd have a great put and take pond, and the cats could easily get big enough to please your kids and friends. The bg will spawn, some will get to decent size, and a lot will be eaten by the cats as they grow. Golden shiners would be another source of forage for the cats, if you were so inclined.

There is always the possiblility of contamination from the smaller to larger pond.....a fine mesh screen will minimize this, but I wouldn't predicate all my plans on complete separation of the two.

The larger pond would be a great HSB spot, excellent fighters, good eating. As you noted, you'll have to restock, and you have some fish loss even with catch and release if you're fishing for them in the hottest part of the summer.

You'll find lots of different opinions about HBG on the forum.

I might consider running a recirc pump between the ponds, and Would like to know if you plan on keeping them full. Is there any source besides rainwater? Do you have any leakage issues? I think your goals are reasonable, but if these ponds were recently dry you could have a few issues to deal with. Oh, of course welcome.

By the way a two pond set up can be very beneficial as far as maintenance and variety. I am working on something very similar on an even smaller scale. I think different reasons but most of the benefits would be the same. Those ponds have great potential, good for you.

I think the 2 hybrids plus the cats are a great plan. One thing to consider. The hybrid bluegills will lightly spawn but not cause a real problem. As long as there is limited structure for the young to hide, very few will reach adult status.

What is going to happen here with no circulation or aeration?

Here is something you can start with lapdawg not to say it's right on but a starting point.

When Stocking a new pond,

Factors including size, pond depth, location, temperatures, weeds present or not present, structure and clarity all determine what kind and how many fish to stock.

1/2 acre pond, 10 - 12' deep:

300 3-4" bluegills, 75 4-6" channel catfish, 50 3-5" bass, or HSB and 2 gallons of minnows.

Like I said this is just a starting point. And I am by no means an expert in this but trying to become one as fast as possible!

Wow, you guys are fast. Thanks.

Dave, as far as structure is concerned, any reccommendations about easy ways to add some? Haven't really spent much time in that forum but I'll get to it. I did see something about setting things out on the ice and waiting for the thaw but that's not an option here (no freeze). Had the perfect chance in 2008 but had no idea it was an issue back then!

Pond frog, I plan on keeping the ponds as full as the rains allow but there is no other water source unless I drill a well. Not in the budget right now (but could be in the future) and again, no electricity (but will be in the future-we plan on building a home there in the next couple of years).

The good news is that there is excellent watershed as the surrounding 5-8 acre land slopes towards the ponds. And I don't think there is a significant leakage problem based on observing water levels over the past year during another relatively dry summer. Certainly, I understand that there is some risk of the ponds drying out but I think this most recent episode was related to a drought in our area of historical proportions. After looking at satellite photos from the last ten years or so and talking to some of the neighbors, I think there's a pretty good chance they'll stay full. I'm willing to accept that risk though.

Not sure About the lack of circulation issues-hoping for some help here.

When is the best time to start stocking and should I stock in any particular order or all together?

Also, another question I forgot to ask-may sound a little silly but I truly am a neophyte. The larger pond is literally packed on both of the long shorelines with small saplings ranging between 1 to 3". I'd like to cut down about 80% of them with my chainsaw, mostly for aesthetic reasons but also to improve wind exposure. Is this going to be a problem if the stumps and roots remain in terms of the potential for leakage when they rot?

lapdawg,

1 to 3 inch saplings can be cut without any issues for the most part. The guys here will tell you that you can cut up to 4 inch diameter trees but after that your cutting at your own risk! Normal rule of thumb is 4 inch or smaller ok, over 4 inch say a small prayer and hope nothing goes wrong. So if your going to get rid of them now would be the time to do it.

Pond Frog, good question about aeration and I think it is always a huge plus.

However, none of the species considered have much in the way of successful recruitment. Both the redears and CC spawn annually and the YOY don't stand much chance of escaping predation. Successful CC recruitment is pretty rare and even noteworthy in a small pond. The HBG and their green sunfish progeny could possibly turn into a problem but manual intervention through fishing, trapping and/or seining should help.

As long as he doesn't start naming the catfish and trying to grow a pond full of big cats, I doubt a water quality issue.

However, you just never know.

Welcome. You can drop a few of the small trees in the ponds for structure.

The small pond would work well for a put and take fishery with HBG , CC and a HSB or two plus FH and a feeder. Those are great kids fisheries. See this link at page 9 http://msucares.com/pubs/publications/p1428.pdf

The larger pond can be managed with LMB and BG/RES but it will take some effort to get and maintain population balance. With 2 ponds you have options. Keep in mind that some fish from the small pond may get in the big pond via the pvc pipe.

If these ponds were recently empty I am concerned there are little to no aquatic plants in them. Would be nice to have some type of oxyengating plant in there. If you have no leakage worries then you look to have the adequate depth to survive on watershed runoff.

Wave action does help out with aeration and those ponds look secluded and wind sheltered. You could thin out the smaller trees, possibly toss them in one area of the pond for forage cover. I might do things much differently in the larger pond, as it's ecosystem is going to vary greatly from the little one even though they are only feet apart. I'd check my local state stocking numbers and drop them down from there as far as you have some forage and aquatic plant work to do. They also might have or really should have different stocking ideas for the different sized ponds.

Bear in mind, the smaller the pond, the more impact you will have with whatever you do. Also, if things go bad and you do have bad drawdown, you can use the smaller pond as a replenishment to the larger pond as a sacrificial lamb. Or the other way around. My concerns here are algae blooms and lack of circulation and oxygen.

Thanks to all who have responded. I'm really learning a lot. Ewest, that reference from MSU is excellent-absolutely packed with good info.

As far as structure is concerned, that seems like a fairly uncomplicated fix that even I can handle. I already have some small cedar trees that I've taken down and will plan to place some cinder blocks and maybe some small gravel beds as well.

Pond frog, the ponds have had water for about a year following a snowstorm last winter (we get about 1/year here and in fact have one coming through tonight). Is that long enough to acquire the necessary vegetation?

I was observing the larger pond last week and there is pretty good wind exposure right now, in fact you can see some rippling in the picture I took last week. That may change when the trees have leaves but that's where the thinning may help. Admittedly, that may be a bit more of an issue for the smaller pond.

As far as stocking strategies, thanks again for all of the input. I kind of like the idea of a put and take approach for both ponds, at least for now. While this is all exciting to the family right now, realistically it's hard to say how much fishing will continue capture the kids interest in the future. Seems like a pretty easy fix if we harvest too much (just put more back) compared to a much more complicated problem if we don't harvest enough, i.e-stunted, overpopulated BG. I would also presume that if we ever wanted to convert the larger pond to a standard BG/LMB pond we could just harvest it out over time w/o replacing or drain it-someone please correct me if that assumption is wrong.

I'm thinking of using the small pond primarily for the CC but will also place some HBG and FHM. I'll plan to feed that one with an automatic feeder. Ewest, you proposed adding a HSB or two there. Is that for biological reasons or for the kids? Would be simple enough either way.

As far as the larger pond goes, I'm thinking about using it for the HSB/HBG combo after starting it out with FHM. Will FHM and the HBG offspring be enough food for the HSB or would I need to feed there as well? I'm not looking for trophy bass, just some sport for friends who like to bass fish. Along the same lines , could I substitute LMB for the HSB in the larger pond or would they outbalance the HBG?

Anyone see problems with this strategy?

Lastly, I'll take Yolk Sac's suggestion and screen the PVC pipe-hard to believe anything small enough to make it through would survive the predators in the bigger pond.

I don't think aquatic vegetation is going to magically appear when the ponds filled. I think the goal here is to find out what type of O2 plants you have locally, and add some to one pond and keep the other a control pond. That and adding forage should be initial projects. I'd be careful screening any outlet. Some how some way, fish have a habit of going from pond to pond.

If you are starting off on a shoestring budget you can probably accomplish quite a bit for very little outlay. I would want to prep the pond well before I added top of the food chain critters to the ecosystems. That way when you do spend money on the fish your investment might fare well. Instead of saying farewell.

Be careful of making assumptions on control. Populations have this strange way of defying all logic. You might want to consider planting for end result vs. planting species you assume you can control later on.

Lapdawg,

I personally wouldn't shy away from making the larger pond a traditional LMB/BG/RES setup. It might not be ideal, but I know of plenty of ponds in the 1/3-1 acre range stocked once with LMB/BG that kept on trucking for 20+ years with zero management. With you actually taking an active role in culling some LMB to prevent overpopulation and perhaps stocking tilapia, it could be a delightful setup.

For the experienced guys here, if Lapdawg were to stock HBG in the upper pond, would some of them ending up in the larger downhill pond be a concern? The MSU link indicates that mixing HBG and regular BG is bad juju. I know that one forum member had good luck raising nice CNBG in a 1/4 acre pond using 1 LMB, 1 blue catfish, and some HSB as predators. Maybe that would be an option here?

Mixing Bg & HBG is bad juju for the bybrids - outgrown and outreproduced.

For structure, I use old toilets and sinks (porcelain). They can be had for free, you can drop them in and fish them with your $4 lure and not worry about snagging and losing lures. If you have very clear water (I do) you can see them on a sunny day, a drawback until they coat completely with algae. The good thing about seeing them though is that you can also remove them if they bug you. Good luck.