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Joined: Apr 2005
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The dirt moving equipment came to my house yesterday. WOOOHOOOO!!

I have long planned/wished for a pond in western KY, and now I'm a little nervous, and second-guessing my plan.

Pond will be around .75-1.0 acres in western KY. I am an amateur retriever trainer, so I plan to have multiple points, coves, chutes and a small island for training advanced concepts. Average depth 5'. It will catch runoff, and also have water source from my geothermal heating/cooling unit with consideration for aeration discussed in old threads.

I would like this pond to double as a place to teach my young son how to catch bream on a cane pole, with the immediate reward of eating what he catches. So I'm thinking of Coppernose BC, RES for sure. I don't really give a rip about LMB, but SMB might be fun, but I realize they may not be sustainable in a small pond. I will put CC in the pond if I need them, but don't really care too much about them.

So here come the questions:
How do I prepare the pond prior to stocking?
Can I get started with it this Fall?
Any other species I should consider?
Ratios of species stocked?
Forage?
Lastly, this pond is in the bottoms near waterfowling. What can I do to make this pond attractive to ducks, geese that would not negatively affect my other goals? Mostly mallards, wood ducks, and a few honkers.

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Depending on how steady the incoming "runoff" water is, you may find that a 5' deep pond gets warm enough in the summer to make it tough for the SMB. There are some threads about the upper temp limits but if I recall anything over 86F could be a problem for their survival, and above 82 may inhibit their growth. If I remember correctly 92F is the upper limit and will lead to fatality. If youy do decide to try the SMB you may want to add crayfish for them as forage.

My new pond was at 5' deep at end of July and it got to 81F. There is no shade and it was hot outside. I am located 5 to 6 hours north of the KY border, so I assume same pond depth would be several degrees warmer in Kentucky.

The water from your geo unit will have virtually zero affect on a 1 acre pond, but will not cool it in the summer or warm it in the winter for sure.

On the other hand the cool winters in KY may adversly affect CNBG - I think they do better further south, but somebody with more knowledge than me will have to say for sure. Standard BG should do well.

You will need a predator species of some kind to keep the bream from stunting. If you want them to be big enough to be fun to catch and eat you probably will want some bass in there to help with that goal. LMB are easy and you could try to keep only females to prevent overpopulation of them. Or maybe HSB as they won't spawn. You would have to add some HSB every few years or more often to keep the BG in check and have various classes.

SMB and bream both benefit from gravel substrate for spawning - to give you one answer to things you can do to prepare the pond. Also adding some structure depending on species chosen - rocks, logs, christmas trees etc. Logs half in the water and half out are great for the turtles. Flat surfaces in the water are helpful for fathead minnows if you use some of them as storage - pallets, lily pads. Good luck.


2/3 acre pond 12 miles from that big pond we call Lake Erie.
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Good job AaTW.

KY is to far north for CNBG to do well. Regular BG will do much better. RES should do fine. Get your fish from a quality hatchery in your general area (don't get them from a different geographic climate).

Fall is a good time to stock.

FH (fatheads) are good forage to start off with.

You will need predators. SMB and/or HSB are options. There are others depending on your goals and how much management you want to undertake.

Ky. Pond Mgt. info

http://www.ca.uky.edu/wkrec/RecreationalFishProduction.htm

http://www.kdfwr.state.ky.us/navigation.asp?cid=136&NavPath=C101

Very good PB thread on ponds and duck dogs and training etc.

http://www.pondboss.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=20;t=002766
















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Preparing for stocking usually means cover, structure, ambush points, etc. I like AATW's points here. I would do that in areas away from training and swimming.

Check your water quality regarding fertility prior to stocking. You need a plankton bloom to establish the food chain for the forage. It might be a little late in the year to get the food chain going to stock the forage and BG. If visibility isn't over 2 ft., you could stock this fall.

For forage, I'm still a fan of starting with fatheads. Once Bluegills get established, they are the forage.

Species can get tough for a balancing act. About the only thing, IMO, that can really handle BG is LMB. However, they have to be managed to keep from overspawning. Your young son may be the answer to that question. You might give consideration to HBG, fatheads, CC and HSB. Periodically, get a couple of pounds of fatheads to increase forage. Get a feeder.

A couple of considerations. My opinions only here. I would go deeper than 5 ft average depth. If you meet your goals and are able to attract a mess of waterfowl, they can turn shallow water into a cesspool. Aeration can help some but poop overload can be a reality. I doubt that it would cost much more to deepen the end near the dam. Gotta admit, I think a lot about drought insurance.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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Thank you all for your input. After having stayed up very late reading, I do feel a bit smarter, but obviously with a great deal to learn.

"The water from your geo unit will have virtually zero affect on a 1 acre pond, but will not cool it in the summer or warm it in the winter for sure. " This surprises me. I expected the water coming in at up to 11 gal/min of 60 degree water would have an effect. I must have overestimated this. If no effect, then maybe I shouldn't bother with running the waterline to it, other than it being "drought insurance".

Should I get a soil test on the dry dirt before filling to determine need for lime/fert? Or should I wait and get pond mud? It's good bottom ground, with deep topsoil, but lots of broomsedge grass growing, which I interpret as acidic soil. Perhaps that could promote a bloom before it cools off, of course, provided I can get some water in it soon.

Cover-I learned alot last night about cover with pallets, rocks, and I have a pile of concrete blocks, bricks, and 4" PVC that might provide. some cover.

Depth-I was inspired last night by some pictures with some wicked bottom structure of new ponds being built. I had a talk last night with the dirtman about a deep trench near the levy. We're going deeper.

Species-State of KY website recommends LMB, BG and CC, which seems boring to me. I am thinking of doing a cove with coarse gravel in the bottom, FHM and crawfish for forage, and then stocking BG, RES, and maybe SMB, then addng some LMB or HSB if necessary for predation.

If RES feed on snails, is there anything I can do to provide this forage for them?

Again, thank you for your thoughtful responses.

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QD - you are on the right track. You will be really glad you happened onto PB when you did. If you have not done so subscribe to PB mag and consider some of the other products (books etc) to assist you in reaching your goals.

Your goals are very similar to mine, except I want a larger predator. I am going for BG-YP-SMB-HSB. I am concerned my pond at 8' deep will prove to be warmer than the SMB would prefer. THe HSB will be to control the BG.

Going deeper is a great thing to do for several reasons - more water = more fish carrying capacity. More depth = cooler water at deeper levels, plus more water (total volume) heats up and cools down more slowly - reacts less to changes in air temps (good for the fish and other creatures that live in the water). More depth will allow you more species choices and places to put structure to enhance fish developement. There a ton of threads on here about structure - try a search and see what else you can find.

Re your geo unit outflow -here is the math: if you have one acre (43,560 sf) at an average depth of 5' (you are now going deeper) that is 217,800 cf. Each cu. ft = 7.48 gallons so you would have like 1.6 million gallons. Adding 11 gpm of 60 degree water will not change the pond water temperature that you will be able to measure. You can if you want go through measuring the heat content of the two waters but trust me it won't affect the temperature. It is a great idea to add the 11 gpm assuming especially if the water is coming from a well or other source away from the pond.

Given that you seem to be diging in undisturbed topsoil, you should get the soil tested for clay content. Your local county extension service will probably have a guy/gal who will come out for free and do some sampling with a boring device. If you don't have enough clay and build your pond from loam type soil it will leak. Meaning you may have to import clay to put into the inside of the pond after digging to seal it against leaks. If you do not know what you have this is probably the most critical step so far. A leaker is a very expensive headache once the water is in it and the excavating equipment is gone.

I would suggest purusing the threads on "Pond Construction" - including "selecting a site" and "soil questions".

Keep asking - you will get the help you need here.


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That kind of math makes my brain hurt...

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Get dry dirt samples from several locations around the pond to be mixed and tested. Here is a recent thread on a similar pond and questions.

http://www.pondboss.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=000510;p=1#000008

Here is Ky. testing info.

Kentucky
University of Kentucky Soil Testing Laboratory
103 Regulatory Service Bldg., Lexington, KY 40546
(859) 257-2785
soils.rs.uky.edu
Soil test cost: $4 to $5.
Includes: Ph, K, Ca, Mg, Zn, soil pH and buffer pH.
To submit sample: Contact your local county extension office.
Common regional problems: Overfertilization of home gardens and lawns; burly tobacco.

















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