Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Pond Treatment did not work at all.

As some of you know I posted a thread with pictures of my pond treatment. It appears that the treatment killed the mature lily pads that had reached the surface of the water but nothing beyond that. Within a few days my pond went from dying brown lily pads and some open water to solid green healthy lilies like nothing had happened. I have not received a bill yet, and the sprayer is going to come back and use a different mix. I am not going to be charged for the follow-up spraying.

Sorry to hear that the treatment didn't work, weeds can be very frustrating. It's at least it's good that the follow up spraying will be done for free. I re-read your other thread and the "2,4-D, glyphosate, and diquat" seems to be what is recommended to control water lillies (based upon a quick internet search I did, I'm certainly no expert). Perhaps he didn't get the mix quite right. Keep us posted as to how this follow up spraying goes.

And nail down what he uses, work or fail.

Don't you need a pretty good surfactant to make the stuff stick to lilly pads?

I don't know about lily pads but with cattails if you don't use a surfactant you are pi**ing into the wind.

as I posted on your thread that is NOT imho a good mix. Diquat "burns" down plants. Gret for submersed grass that has little to no roots. Poor for rooted emergent plants. My thinking is that with Diquat the plant foliage is being killed before the 2,4-D can translocate in the roots. We use 2,4-D glyphosate combo. Nice to hear he is coming back for free. We just had a situation with alage clietn said looked worse after spray so we agreed on reducded charge.

Too many variables outside of my control with spraying applications for me to go back for free. I charge a set fee for the application and for the exact amount of product used. I dont do contracts or bids.

I have found in all of my mistakes the biggest culprit is communication with the owner.

I didn't see that post Greg, what would you recommend that the lillys be treated with? (not questioning your judgement, just trying to help ericdc out).



Ahhh, managing client expectations. I use to be involved in designing & implementing computerized accounting systems. One of the keystones of a successful (both monetarily for the consultant and satisfaction level of the client) is ensuring that both the consultant and the client are clear as to what is to be performed, what the cost will be for the services, and what the anticipated result will be. With all of the variables in pond management I don't have a clue how you pond professionals do that.

I had very good results in killing cattails and water lilies using a 2,4-D glyphosate and 2x strong surficant mix the summer before I renovated the pond. What little plants survived (I couldn't reach them all) I removed with the excavator. I hit them twice about 2 weeks apart.

jeff as mentioend int eh post, 2,4-d and glyphosate. If just a small amount the best is navigate 2,4-d granular. However it is pricey but if applied correctly a few applicaitosn do a better job of eradicating the roots and gone for good.

Nate I agree 100%. Client was upset we did not kill all the algae. I asked did he expect that he said he it woudl kill everything. I came down on employee and explained that we need to clearly state we are charging for our time and can not promise complete kill. The client is geting a second spray for $75 normally $250 and hope that resolves issues but so far no payement for APril 11 spraying. I hate having a business some days.

Greg and Nate -

Ditto, ditto and ditto. We spray a lot of aquatic vegetation and for good reasons. I've learned to manage client expectations by: 1) having them sign an agreement on our scope of work i.e. herbicides used, mode of application (airboat, 6x6, etc.) and the like, 2) explain, in writing, requiring a signature, all the things that could or could not happen before, during and after the application...yes it's a long list but worth the Client's read, and 3) the last, but most important part, our clients are given the actual herbicide labels and they must sign and return each page stating they read and understood it.

We implemented this over 5 years ago and I've had no "un-managed" client expectations and I've never had to do a free or reduced-price re-treatment. We all know what's going to happen before it happens. Clear communication prevents many problems.

In ericdc's instance, it's a perfect example to everyone out there that just because someone owns a spray boat, has a license and can purchase aquatic herbicides, does not mean they can perform the job correctly.

I once got called out to a 30 acre lake that an aquatic applicator from another company had just used around $10,000 of granular algaecide to treat coontail. The guy called me to get an second opinion. He showed me the bids he received and said he chose this guy because he was the cheapest. Bad decision. Cost him a lot of money in the long run.

Folks, learn your lesson early - ask questions, do your due diligence and make sure you're dealing with a competent professional. You won't regret any of it.

I believe Greg nailed it. No reason for the diquat, which is a contact herbicide. The recommended choices are all complex salts which take time to reach the roots. Surfactant is an absolute necessity on 'lily pads' of any sort due to their slick surface. It will just bead up and roll off. another example of mis or no identification. Did the company actually tell you what you had? Lily pad is not a plant, but a catch all term for several types of water plants with roundish leaves and possibly flowers.

PS..the diquat ran the cost of chemicals up also.

Trent,
Thanks for the great ideas!

I am not in the business of just going out and looking for spraying jobs and contracts, at this stage we typically only applicate for our clients who we manage their fisheries and properties.

I started out applicating for subdivision lakes and such and found out quickly that road is not for me!

Hey guys, When I spoke with the guy about spraying my pond I asked if the lily pads would be eradicated. I said I would be ok with one or 2 here and there but currently the entire perimeter of the pond has lily pads from the bank out to 40 feet or so from the bank. This distance is between 1/4 and 1/2 a mile. I have estimated that out of the 4.5 acres of total pond surface area I have between 1 and 1.5 acres of lily pad coverage. The guy who sprayed said he used a rapid acting mix and Greg, he pretty much said what you said, that he is going to come back with a slower mix that will hopefully reach the roots.

I don't sit behind anybody's desk but my own and have been self employed for over 25 years. I agree that management of client expectations is absolutely critical for a business of any size but is more important to a small business. I'm a Headhunter and supply IT Professionals to businesses that pay me a hefty fee to find the right people for them.

That said, I have, on various occasions, replaced a person that didn't work out, was not my fault and the contract was clearly on my side. I didn't get paid for the extra work and/or expense. I remember the John Wayne movie and the "My fault, your fault, nobodys fault at all". Even though I performed to the best of my ability and did everything right, the customer didn't get what he paid for. No matter what the contract says, my reputation is at risk and I take that very personally. It's a smaller world out there than I used to think it was and I've gotten a lot of business from referrals.

In Eric's case, it sounds like the applicator blew it. I'm not going to go into whether he sprayed the right stuff or did it right. That's more you guys field than mine.

Think it over.

2nd treatment is going on right now with a 24 D treatment.