Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Types of fish to choose Small Mouth Bass in Texas

Bill & Dave are dead on with my experience. They're a little more fusiform, and not nearly as prolific. I put in about 25-30 RES in my pond and have had no recruitment. Not sure if they all get eaten, or if the BG just push them out. I'd be (am) concerned if you have mixed sex RES with male only BG - I just don't know enough of the implications of the cross other than they're beautiful fish. But if no BG, I think Bill & Dave are dead on.

I plan to find out over the next couple years if all male BG will successfully mate in a pond that has mixed sex RES. I have a feeling they will under a limited basis.

Thanks Aaron...

Thanks Aaron and Bill. Great info. I never even thought about stocking SMB until I found PB.

Aaron,

The first one we will try will be the 100acre lake. Hopefully we will enough rain so we can start stocking the forage fish. Initally we will stock BG, RES, Threadfin, and FH. We won't plan on stocking any gamefish unti for 6-8 months to give the baitfish time to take hold.

Sounds like it maybe a good idea to stock the SMB 6 months before LMB?

That lake sounds awesome. Do you have stocking numbers of the forage? Obviously that's a big job (would love to see it!). I'd wait *at least* 6 months. I waited a year and it was a good idea because the SMB were adults. Remember they grow a bit slower than the LMB (mouth/prey size).

For the mixed bass pond, IMHO This is good:
Forage Day 1
SMB + 6 months from Day
LMB + 6 months from SMB

This is better:
Forage (minus BG) - Day 1
SMB + BG 6-12 months from Day 1
LMB 12 months from SMB +BG

All of that would depend on stocking ratios and sizes of stockers. If you're doing more adult forage, then time can speed up. Ewest always recommended, and I agree as I did it, stocking various year classes of forage. It speeds up reproduction and ultimately gives you a great base. 100 acres is big, and patience will pay off years down the line in building forage base and letting it grow before it gets hammered. BTW, are you going to be supplemental feeding anything in that monster?

Aaron for a lake that size would you still not recommend BG?

Depends what you want out of it. Sometimes we all start answering the specific questions before we really know what you want out of it. I could answer both ways.

So can I clarify a few things? I know it's a lot of questions, but they're important and we can give more guidance on the pros and cons of various situations.

What's the goal of the pond? Why would be your perfect situation? Plan on feeding? How much fishing pressure? Do you want SMB only as your sportfish? or SMB and LMB? or SMB and HSB? Catfish? Do you want big fish, and if so, which type? or do you want a more balanced fishery where you can catch lots of fish? Are you going to or willing to harvest fish? If you harvest, will it be for food or food & population control?

Feeding is the other main question. To feed effectively you'd need quite a few feeders, is this something you want to do?

Aaron

I think that the goal would be to create a balanced fishery focused on trophy LMB and possibly SMB. We will also want to stock some catfish for food/recreation. Their are no plans to feed fish on a large scale due to the cost. We may have a feeder on the dock for entertainment.

Fishing will be primarily friends and family. Harvest will be based on food & Population Control.

With 100 acres I think that it will be easier to manage for trophy LMB and still be able to have a nice mixture of other fish to catch.

Cool. Wasn't sure if you were going to create the most unique lake in Texas with a 100 acre smallmouth haven. (could kinda get excited thinking about a 100 acre SMB and HSB lake - but I digress!)

If you're going mixed, you should keep with BG for sure. Realize that there isn't a lot of experience with developing mixed bass lakes in Texas that we've seen on here, but like Cody, I think it's very doable especially starting from the start.

I'd think of the SMB a bonus fish, but I'd work to get them established before the LMB - and then I'd go lighter on the LMB numbers. Greg Grimes presented at the Conference last year with a modified trophy bass strategy which is 2-4x the traditional amounts of forage, and half the traditional LMB numbers - and the results have been amazing for big LMB. I'd try to go the same route with lower LMB numbers after the SMB. There should be enough forage for the SMB to do well, get a good start, and then still plenty for the LMB to take off with.

The LMB will catch up, but you'll give yourself a good shot. You've got a pretty good traditional forage base with BG, RES, FH, and the TS. The TS will be key - so make sure you can basically walk across the lake on the TS schools when your bass go in (exaggeration, but only a little). IMO with the mixed species bass I'd want a really diverse forage base - as your fish should be able to find their niche in a lake that size. I'd think about adding Golden Shiners and crawfish early on as well.

Do you have numbers on the forage you're stocking?

Aaron, I think you you pack a whole Great Lake's worth of fishing action in if you had 100 acres to work with. Condello would never leave.

Kind of scary, really.

Aaron

Working on the numbers now. Due to the size and cost of stocking we are considering stocking in stages. Over a 12 -18 month period before we add sportsfish. Especially the FH and TS. The BG and RES would be stocked toward the end. We would like for the baitfish to spawn a few times and naturally stock the lake with forage.

We have other lakes that we can fish and enjoy while we wait. The idea of creating a SMB & HSB only lake is intriguing.

Brandon stages is a great idea for a pond that size.. if you're patient you can stock it slower and get to the same results at 1/10th the cost. Why wait on the BG/RES? You could do significantly fewer sooner than waiting 12-18 months.

Aaron

My thought on waiting was to hopefully ensure that the BG won't be large enough to eat the LMB or SMB on the inital stocking.

I think BG/RES would have to be pretty big to have much chance even with small bass fingerlings. IME medium large adult BG/RES (up to 9" or so) are very successful at eating Gambusia in a target rich environment, but not nearly as efficient at eating slower but larger FHM. If the Bass fingerlings exceeded 4", I think they would be very safe.

Theo

Thanks. My goal is to get a huge jump on the forage so they will be self sustaining once the sportfish are introduced.

I talked to American Sportfish today. They are the advertiser that will ship SMB fingerling. The cost was $2 per fish at 2 inches in size with 100 fish minimum order plus shipping.

Thanks for the info Chris!

IMO 2"-3" fingerlings of LMB / SMB would be very safe in the presence of adult (7"-9") BG-RES.

My water is really muddy and will be until I clear it. Should I wait to stock the SMB until after it is cleared up. I think I remember hearing that SMB are mainly sight feeders.

I'd wait til it cleared up. I don't know of a single good SMB lake, pond or river that stays muddy for long.

Cody, in a smallish pond, wouldn't HBG or GSF provide the limited recruitment needed for Chris?

BrandonA I strongly suggest you contact Dr. Jeff Slipke with Southeastern Pond as he and the others at SEP have experience with southern SMB ponds. As a general rule the smaller the pond the quicker it gets out of balance and the easier and less expensive it is to fix. On bigger ponds (10 acres + ) it pays to do it right the first time and they tend to keep their same condition because they are more like a train - they keep going are harder to stop and change course and cost a lot to correct. I have no hesitation trying things on a small pond that I would not try on a big one because I know it will be easy to fix. A 100 acre lake magnifies those concerns. Take a look at this thread.

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=16774&fpart=1


by Dave Willis ,
Ok, folks. I heard back from Dr. Jeff Slipke, who is with Southeastern Pond Management. He graciously gave me permission to post his smallmouth bass comments here on the forum.

"I do not manage any ponds that have SMB as the only predator in the pond. I have a few ponds that periodically add adult SMB as bonus fish in their LMB ponds. In these, the SMB do not recruit…no earth shattering news there. But the adults grow and thrive quite well.

However, I do have one 15-acre pond in southern West Virginia that is managed as a SMB fishery. It was stocked with bluegill and fathead minnows in Fall 2003, and golden shiners and crawfish in spring 2004. We added 350 adult SMB (8 to 14 inches) in July 2004. Things looked good until LMB got introduced by accident in Fall 2004 via a flooded creek.

Our electrofishing survey in July 2005 showed YOY recruitment of both SMB and LMB, with LMB fingerlings outnumbering the SMB fingerlings by 20 to 1 (WOW!), even though SMB adults outnumbered LMB adults by about 3 to 1. It’s sure tough for the SMB to compete. Anyway, we spent the better part of an entire day removing as many LMB as we could via electrofishing. We ended up pulling out about 40 LMB weighing a total of 29 pounds.

Our June 2006 electrofishing survey showed a 3:1 ratio of LMB:SMB fingerlings, so the LMB removal must have worked somewhat. We are scheduled to go up there in two weeks to remove LMB. We’re going early this year to remove LMB before they get a chance to spawn. I’ll keep you posted.

There are a couple reasons we don’t have more folks go with SMB as the predator species in this area:

-Fingerling SMB are not readily and reliably available.
-The fear of getting LMB introduced and messing the whole thing up.

I wish more of my customers would experiment with them, because I really believe they would do well. My gut feeling is that recruitment would not be a problem if we could keep those darn green fish out of the system."

ewest

Thanks for the link.

I guess the SMB is not as prolific as the LMB. I don't have a problem having both. I love catching big ol bass. In the 100 acre lake when full it will flood approx 50 acres of mesquite/brush. I would think that the LMB will spend the majority of their time in this area habitat and the SMB will spend most of the time in the deeper water by the damn. I may be wrong in my assumption though.

Is the green fish he is referring to GSF or LMB, or something else?

I was going thru my night stand and found a stack of pond boss magazines that my wife consolidated in the drawer. I think its the March/April issue where they hit off of your last statement.

I like you believed that it was the SMB's niche to be a deep, cool water predator but in that article it suggests the opposite. They say that the main reason SMB end up in the deeper waters is because the more aggressive fish such as LMB push them off of the prime hunting grounds similar to how bullies sit where they want even if there is a skinny little guy sitting in that seat. Eventually that bully will get what he wants. It appears that there will be a few more installments on SMB in upcoming issues so if you don't subscribe I'd recommend you do. That article has me leaning towards setting up a SMB pond when I get the ball rolling. I can get decent largemouth at almost any lake/pond in my county but to land a fat smallmouth off a top water lure, that just has my arm reading to set the hook.

But of course in a 100 acre pond they will have plenty of places to choose from.

RB