Pond Boss Forums GENERAL QUESTIONS Muddy water Chocolate milk pond

hi guys i love the site i found it last week and been reading like crazy. I have a 1 1/2 acre pond, it was built last summer and still will not settle. the average depth of the pond is 5 feet deep and the deepest it gets is 9ft. There is absolutely no visibility in the pond. I have added 1500 pounds of gypsum over the past 2 weeks and still nothing has happend. The pond is all clay and sealed well just cant get the particles to settle. Also i have no topsoil on the dam just clay any chance of getting anything to grow on the clay without a truck load of topsoil?
thanks
cameron

Welcome to Pond Boss camo15ok! Have you tried putting some of your ponds water into a clear milk jug or other container and seeing if the particulate settles on its own... Once you test that, you can go from there. There are a number of species that will grow on just clay. Is the dam completely bare right now?

Hi Camo,we're glad to have you aboard.The experts will be along shortly,and the jar test will be the first recomendation,I' sure.Any fish in there that might be stirring up the water?

Hi Camo,


That's the exact problem I had, same size pond and everything. Soft rain water will keep fine clay in suspension indefinitely. I guess I added about 1500# of gypsum, 500# of alum, and 400# of hydrated lime. When it began to clear a little, I stopped adding chemicals, because other things will also work to slowly clear it up. It still has a way to go, but I'm not in a rush to deal with the problems clear water can bring.

If you have a lot of outflow, you will lose your chemicals, your water will remain on the soft side, and may never clear up. In that case, you may have to restrict the inflow by diverting the water when the pond is near full.

Bermudagrass will grow in clay, although slower than in topsoil. You may need to fertilize and lime it the first year. I think it's the best all around grass in climates where it will grow.

thank you for the quick answers, i have done the jar test and the gypsum cleared it in mins. i have bought my local co-op out of gypsum and have another 800 pounds on order. yes i do have fish in the pond about 100 catfish 150 bass 200 blue gill and 4lbs of fatheads arriving tomorrow. i have yet to see the fish yet this year. i do not have a lot of out flow and the pond is all the way full. I would like to try the ALUM any body know about the right amount to put into a pond my size with out hurting the fish. i liked the idea of gypsum just because it wouldent hurt the 600 dollars worth of fish i put in the pond last fall? i bought a bag of rye and spread it over the dam last weekend but im affraid the clay is just to hard and the first big rain i have it will wash away the seed i put down.
thanks for the welcome
camo

sorry i dont think i answered everyones questions, b4 i applied the gypsum i did do the jar test and didnt clear after a week. the dam is also completely baron as of right now besides some rye seed that isnt comming up yet.

You may be having a wash off issue increasing the sediment load in your pond. If you can get vegetation establish around the perimeter of your pond, your pond may very well clear up...

A ratio of 150 LMB to 200 BG is not a typical stocking rate. Was there a specific reason for stocking these numbers? You maybe want to consider stocking more BG.

That's a good thing. Too much outflow only wastes your chemicals.

In a pond that size with plenty of gypsum already applied, you can use 500# of alum with no worries. Just saying, beause it may not take that much. Try not to apply alum in areas where there are a lot of fish. It probably wouldn't kill them, but I guess it's not fun to get a snoot full of something as acid as lemonade.

You may be fighting a losing battle until you get the grass to grow around the pond. I'm also in NE Oklahoma and had the same problem. Used gypsum with not much luck and then alum with good results. But then after several rains, the water would cloud up again. I ended up spreading a very then layer of top soil all around the pond. It doesn't take much for the grass to grow in. I also put some sod down in the high runoff areas which helped.

If you haven't seen this link check it out. I found that the rates were on the safe side.

http://www.luresext.edu/aquaculture/clearingmuddyponds.htm

Take at look through this thread:

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=124005#Post124005

ok it sounds to me i need to get the dam covered with some sort of vegitation, as for the stocking of blue gill at that certain number i am not sure now that u say that how many i got i just know i need to clear this water so they can see the food im thorwing them. How do you apply alum to a pond this size i have a canoe, do i dilute the mixture or just apply it directly to the pond? sorry for so many questions i just dont want to make a costly mistake.

camo, there are a goodly number of threads in the "Muddy Water" section detailing alum application. You can do a search for "alum" and look them over. One really good one IMO is Rainman's Alum Kicks Clay's Butt , which has some stunning "after" pics as well (I'm just jealous 'cause the only big BG I have seen lately en masse were all dead).

Camo, a 1.5 acre pond will need about 7 ton of gypsum to have any effect. Gypsum and lime are very slow to dissolve and act. I would suggest 10-15 tons of AG LIME, It runs about $10 per ton delivered and spread. You can NOT use too much ag lime and it will have long term benefits in your neck of "Green Country".

I live in St. Louis and could help you if you need to use alum. Just send me a PM.

Theo, I WISH I could see my gills again!

finally bought the alum, getting ready to start applying anybody have a clever idea on how to spread the alum? i know people using prop wash and dumping it behind it and using the boom sprayers.

camo, For it to be effective and NOT a total waste of money, It HAS to be dissolved first. You only pour DISSOLVED alum into the prop wash or through the sprayer. Alum is heavier than water so more needs to be applied over deeper water than shallow to attract all the suspended particles. The HYDRATED lime (50% of alum) can be spead dry through the prop wash or simply broadcast over the water.

How much alum did you get? If you can get a small boat, you can use my sprayer.

Camo,

I did mine from the bank with the things on hand so as to save myself from having to buy a sprayer.

I used a 55 gallon drum and mixed the alum/lime with pond water. I distributed it by using my 2" gasoline powered water/trash pump with a 50' section of discharge hose and a fire/fog nozzle on the end. I loaded the drum on the tailgate of my truck and dropped the suction hose in the pond, filled the drum with water, added the alum lime and stirred like hell. I was able to do about 30 lbs of alum and 20 lbs of lime per drum. I then took the suction hose and placed it in the drum and pumped/sprayed the mixture out over the pond from the bank with the fire hose/nozzle. It will spray about 50'. I just did one drum at a time and moved around the pond as I did. It was effective and I did not waste any chemical. I was able to cover the entire pond from the bank. I then got in my paddle boat and paddled like hell around the pond. You will need to do it on a calm day so you can control the spray. I think the use of the trash pump helped to dissolve the alum/lime better, and the fine spray really layed nicely on the water. You could actually watch the water clear as it rained on the pond.

I don't know if that is the best way, but it worked for me.

The pump I used

The nozzle

Good luck, and let us know how yours turned out and what method you used.

Regards,

Bill

Billfish, I think that is a GREAT method! As long as it gets to the entire water surface, that is all that is required. Alum does not disperse very well as a flocculant unless it is EXTREMELY over appliied.

Rainman,

I used to work at the largest water purification plant in the Houston area (I was a safety guy, not a water guy, but I did learn the process). They used a system of spray nozzles that sprayed the liquid alum over the water as it entered the settling ponds (flocculation ponds). Of course this was a large scale operation. they had 2 or 3 tankers of alum brought in every day.

That is where I got the idea of the fire/fog nozzle as it disperses the alum in a similar fashion as the system at the water plant.

Regards,

Bill

The mixing in the water was what I was referring to. The turbulance of the water entering mixed the sprayed alum. In the calm of a pond, the alum has to "fall" through the water column. It WILL disperse somewhat if poured into a small area but very poorly and would settle to the bottom before magnetically attacting as many suspended solids on it's way down.

Like I said, the fire nozzle is a GREAT method when it can reach the ENTIRE ponds water surface. It will provide excellent coverage and mixing.

Thank you for the explanation.

I can see how much money can be wasted on the alum if not done correctly.

Camo,

For reference , it took about 4500 # of gypsum to clear my 1.8 acre pond. That was about double what I projected from bottle testing.